It feels to me like Hasbro has lit a fire under Wizards of the Coast, and given them

[jeffh]

The word on magicthegathering.com is of the best year they've had in quite some time, thanks to the new approach to the basic set as well as the greater availability of products like the Duel Decks that you can just pick up and play. The people who seem to think Magic is fading would appear to be very much mistaken.

In any case, the whole thread rests on a mistaken notion of the relative importance of D&D and Magic to WotC's bottom line. Magic is their cash cow (along with Duelmasters outside North America) and I wouldn't be surprised if there have been times - the last few months before 4E came out, at the very least - when Magic was subsidizing D&D. This seems to be something that (a) WotC is comfortable with and (b) Hasbro shows no signs of giving a crap about one way or the other.

 

[Dedekind]

Again...I hate to point out...aren't we forgetting M:TG?

Noted, and you are right. But I've been trying to forget M:TG on purpose

 

[Ourph]

The free version contains levels 1-3 for PHB1 and PHB2 only.

Anything else requires a subscription to upgrade.

Does the free version contain PHB2 content? That's cool. I was under the impression that they weren't going to add any content to the free version beyond the PHB1 and preview Dragon and Dungeon issues. That makes the free version even more generous than I originally thought. Way to go WotC!

 

[mudbunny]

Does the free version contain PHB2 content? That's cool. I was under the impression that they weren't going to add any content to the free version beyond the PHB1 and preview Dragon and Dungeon issues. That makes the free version even more generous than I originally thought. Way to go WotC!

I thin that PHB2 content got added a couple of months after it came out. If they follow the same pattern, I would guess that by late summer PHB3 content is added.

 

[haakon1]

Related to Smeelbo's post, my local FLGS owner told me he orders one box of MTG cards and WotC ships him 10 boxes, if he refuses to accept the 10 shipped or complains to WotC, they withhold products from him on future orders.

Assuming this is true, I would suspect fraud by whoever is getting a commission for shipping to him (to get better commissions from their employer by over-reporting sales), rather than an official policy.

Not dissing on WOTC/the distributor, who by definition won't have figured out what's happening yet and are getting ripped off, but I've seen this happen/heard about it from people affected in three different industries, including books.

 

[haakon1]

Buying from FLGS as "voting with $"

But there's also a seemingly pervasive attitude that too many gamers (and people in general) feel like they're "owed" everything for engaging in a hobby.

Last night, I was a player in my friend's 4e campaign. (Normally, I'm a DM of my own 3.5e.)

The subject of FLGS support came up, and the 3 DM's there all buy locallly. In fact, two of us intentionally shop at two local FLGS (in Seattle, we're lucky enough to have several to choose from just in the Eastside suburbs) with the intention of keeping them in business. The third DM also buys from FLGS, but I think it's more convenience then "voting with $" for him.

It wouldn't surprise me if this is more likely a middle-aged DM's attitude (we're all 30s or 40s) than the attitude of players (who buy less in any case) or students (with a different ratio of reading time to $).

 

[CharlesRyan]

Sounds to me like Wizards is having a do-or-die moment. Who would be lighting a fire under Wizards except Hasbro?

I'm not sure I grant all your premises, but just out of curiousity, why do you assume it would be anybody but WotC?

If your shop wasn't performing to your satisfaction, would you require some sort of overlord to tell you to try some new strategies?

 

[TheYeti1775]

...snip....
What exactly is Amazon.com doing for you?
...end snip....
Smeelbo
Abuser of EZCodes

Selling me books at 35-40% off retail, with no sales tax, free shipping too.

Exactly that.
As well as a used book market, which is more useful to me now more than ever since I'm not a current 4E player.

The only time I actually go to a 'LGS' is when my son has been fairly good and I'm letting him pick something out there. I might pick up mini's in addition to what I buy him there. But even mini's purchase can be done cheaper online.

As well as have a stock of what I want to buy.
Easier to find lesser known products I'm looking for and multiple copies of it.
Case example of that:
I wanted to have my group try out a D20 world. The LGS doesn't have a single copy, but online I go and order 6 copies shipped to my door. No worries, no hassle, no worry about store hours (I bought it at 3am) convience for me (no 30-45 minute drive to the LGS).

As you see it's hard to compete with that.
Even if you offer your customers pre-ordering, they still have to go through the motions of coming to your store and making that order or you taking the order over the phone or internet yourself.
That same amount of time I could set up my pre-orders for the next year on Amazon and have Christmas every release date as it's delivered to my doorstep.

The one advantage I can see the LGS having over ordering online, married guys can appreciate this, my wife would have a hard time stopping an impulse buy of mine.

But really for someone that doesn't have a LGS right around the corner, doesn't play the current edition, and doesn't normally play in a LGS you are hard pressed to find something to attract one such as I as a customer.
You figure out a way to get me in your store, and to continue coming to your store well than you can win the battle with Amazon. Till that time though, my FRN's go that route.

 

[Herschel]

I buy everything online. I don't own retailers anything and I'm not going to suffer through a sub-par buying experience just because there's the incorrect idea out there that game stores are necessary and should be supported.

When I shop for game stuff, everything is in stock. I get it cheaper and nine times out of ten I get it within 3 days of ordering it.

Additionally I'm buying more products which is resulting in more sales to the publisher. Buying from a game store means your money doesn't go as far and supports the wrong end of the chain.

Others may feel that they owe the game store, that's fine, but don't ask me to subsidize your use of a retail store.

Nobody is saying anyone should have a sub-par buying experience. Nobody is asking you to "subsidize" anything. So STFU about that garbage and understand the very basic premise: service costs money because people are behind it. Good service isn't free, nor should it be.

Moderator's note: Ladies and gentlemen, just so you know, "STFU" is not what we consider civil or respectful speech. You may feel someone is wrong, but you don't have the right to tell them to shut up. If you want to continue being part of a discussion, treat others with respect. Thank you. - Umbran, EN World Mod

Also, just because you're buying more cheaper doesn't make a better contribution to the 'system'. Most games simply have a life cycle. A new edition or a different game will be coming along. Many peopple won't buy a new game untested/untried/unseen online and one of the game store's functions is to be a place where people can check them out. I've purchased a few games I really enjoy that I likely never would have looked twice at had they not been someplace i could check them out.

This is important because a single line won't support WotC, and OGL types need to get their message to people. Game stores are extremely important marketers and a very important cog in helping the business actually grow. If all game companies catered to was existing gamers, they'd be gone.

 

[Herschel]

Exactly that.
1. As well as a used book market, which is more useful to me now more than ever since I'm not a current 4E player.

2. Case example of that:
I wanted to have my group try out a D20 world. The LGS doesn't have a single copy, but online I go and order 6 copies shipped to my door. No worries, no hassle, no worry about store hours (I bought it at 3am) convience for me (no 30-45 minute drive to the LGS).

1. Then for D&D, you don't count. You aren't a current buyer from any source. Just like I didn't really count for 3.5.

2. How much were the books? If they didn't like it, it's 6 copies of (obscure-ish) garbage that you might get $.50 a copy for used. That's a definite risk.

There are some nice things about ordering online, don't get me wrong, but when I see people going to game stores, checking stuff out, reading books, inquiring of the staff and expecting swag turn around and order online, I find that ridiculous. That's biting the hand that showed you. If you're risking products sight-unseen, then that's a different animal all together.