Swordmage AC bad for a defender?

[boar]

Swordmage AC is definitely not low. With a maxed intelligence score, they start with 20: 10 + 2 (leather) + 5 (int) + 3 (warding). This is equivalent to a paladin with plate and heavy shield, and barring weird cheese, is the highest possible starting AC in the game. Even dropping to an 18 intelligence score, they're still on par with a fighter in scale and shield.

The drawback is that they don't get the heavy shield's +2 to reflex. The upshot is that they don't suffer any armor penalties or a penalty to speed. The paladin's -4 to athletics, acrobatics, and endurance is no laughing matter. -2 to reflex is a fair price to pay for the highest AC in the game without any other drawbacks.

As for later levels, masterwork armor is irrelevant. The AC bonus from masterwork progresses at roughly the same rate as the bonus from rising ability scores, and the swordmage's own masterclass bonus will give him +1 to another defense.

The swordmage does have the option to improve his AC further with hide armor, hide armor specialization, and the feat that boosts the warding. The paladin only gets plate armor specialization. Thus, the swordmage's AC is potentially higher than the paladin's.

 

[Felon]

The drawback is that they don't get the heavy shield's +2 to reflex. The upshot is that they don't suffer any armor penalties or a penalty to speed. The paladin's -4 to athletics, acrobatics, and endurance is no laughing matter. -2 to reflex is a fair price to pay for the highest AC in the game without any other drawbacks.

Well, at 11th level, light masterwork armor provides NAD defenses, so even the shield's reflex boost is compensated for.

Then again, at least 80% of attacks go against AC, so NAD's are of a far less concern.

As for later levels, masterwork armor is irrelevant. The AC bonus from masterwork progresses at roughly the same rate as the bonus from rising ability scores, and the swordmage's own masterclass bonus will give him +1 to another defense.

The relevance of masterwork is determined chiefly by how ability scores are assigned. If you assume an 8-18 array, then I guess I could see calling it irrelevant. It's still hyperbolic, because that includes an assumption that every class using light armor has Dex or Int as their primary ability score, and that's not the case. Now, if you have to make do with a less optimized array, then heavy armor starts to come out a better deal than light armor. I built a super-nimble acrobat elven ranger up to level 15 the other day. He found it hard to push past AC 28. Meanwhile, the goliath ranger in plate is up to 30.

 

[Klaus]

Swordmage AC is definitely not low. With a maxed intelligence score, they start with 20: 10 + 2 (leather) + 5 (int) + 3 (warding). This is equivalent to a paladin with plate and heavy shield, and barring weird cheese, is the highest possible starting AC in the game. Even dropping to an 18 intelligence score, they're still on par with a fighter in scale and shield.

The drawback is that they don't get the heavy shield's +2 to reflex. The upshot is that they don't suffer any armor penalties or a penalty to speed. The paladin's -4 to athletics, acrobatics, and endurance is no laughing matter. -2 to reflex is a fair price to pay for the highest AC in the game without any other drawbacks.

As for later levels, masterwork armor is irrelevant. The AC bonus from masterwork progresses at roughly the same rate as the bonus from rising ability scores, and the swordmage's own masterclass bonus will give him +1 to another defense.

The swordmage does have the option to improve his AC further with hide armor, hide armor specialization, and the feat that boosts the warding. The paladin only gets plate armor specialization. Thus, the swordmage's AC is potentially higher than the paladin's.

The heavy shield's +2 to Reflex is more than balanced by the Swordmage's +4 or +5 to Reflex due to his high Int. A Fighter or Paladin would need Dex 16 to match that, and very few will invest that high.

Conversely, shield-wielders are 2 feats away from adding the shield bonus to Fort and Will. Swordmages will have to do that with abilities only.

 

[Felon]

The heavy shield's +2 to Reflex is more than balanced by the Swordmage's +4 or +5 to Reflex due to his high Int. A Fighter or Paladin would need Dex 16 to match that, and very few will invest that high..

Well, weighing a shield bonus against an ability score bonus doesn't wash, because everyone has one good ability score. Hight Fort for the fighter, Fort or Will for the pally. That's all self-contained give-and-take.

 

[renau1g]

SM will also likely have a decent Fort, taking either Str or Con as secondary.

 

[Victim]

As for later levels, masterwork armor is irrelevant. The AC bonus from masterwork progresses at roughly the same rate as the bonus from rising ability scores, and the swordmage's own masterclass bonus will give him +1 to another defense.

Kind of. Overall, we can say that masterwork and stat bonuses scale at the same rate. However, there are certain points when things tip one way or the other. Especially when using PHB only masterwork armor, since it changes in a huge clump - there's a huge difference between the fighter with +3 normal plate, and +4 Warplate. So level by level, things can go back and forth.

 

[drothgery]

Swordmages get leather (+2), and many spend a feat on Greater Swordmage Warding in Paragon, which boosts all defenses by +1/+2 at epic. They stay with Fighters in scale, and can spend a feat to stay with Paladins in plate.

Somehow I did not know this until reading this thread, probably because I built my swordmage in the Character Builder and dumped CON because there didn't seem to be much point in boosting STR and CON.

 

[Klaus]

Somehow I did not know this until reading this thread, probably because I built my swordmage in the Character Builder and dumped CON because there didn't seem to be much point in boosting STR and CON.

That's a downside of the CB: you can build your charavter out of order (looking at good feats to take, then assigning scores to meet the prerequisites).

 

[Mort_Q]

That's a downside of the CB: you can build your charavter out of order (looking at good feats to take, then assigning scores to meet the prerequisites).

You can have it show all the feats (ones that you don't have the pre-requisites for), etc... but it sure gets messy.

 

[Klaus]

Yeah, but then it shows lots of things you don't need, and the things you do want get lost in the chaos.