Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition

[Votan]

This works in fiction because the writer has so much power, but game systems have really struggled with this, because the rules are too 'real world' simulationist rather than comics simulationist.

This is an exceeding good point. Part of what makes a good comic book is challenging the protagonists in ways that enable everyone to contribute. Some serious thinking is required to make Superman and Batman work well together in a typical game. This is even more true of the golden age versions of these characters.

The bat plane is neat and all but superman is moving at superluminal speeds.

I like the idea of determination scaling inversely with power. It not only matches the comics (where Batman has a strong plot influence) but avoids Batman being meaningless. I believe the Doctor Who RPG had something similar to make a companion viable.

 

[AllisterH]

*Shrug*

As a longtime member of CBR, the one truism still holds.

Superspeed is an INHERENTLY broken power.

Unless the opponent is Juggernaut (aka...I can tank Hulk at his angriest and take Thor's might godblast in the face without flinching), superspeed simply trumps all.

 

[Kafen]

*Shrug*

As a longtime member of CBR, the one truism still holds.

Superspeed is an INHERENTLY broken power.

Unless the opponent is Juggernaut (aka...I can tank Hulk at his angriest and take Thor's might godblast in the face without flinching), superspeed simply trumps all.

I ran a table top game that limited Superspeed to NPCs. Three of the players tried to use it. They hated it when NPCs had it. Eventually, I kind of set it to the side as a game master. It's a tough thing to do - ignore superspeed in a Supers setting. Jay Garrick would be horrified.

 

[pawsplay]

In my experience this just shouldn't be so. I did read up a bunch on the M&M forums and pointed out a lot of little "tricks" to the players, but I didn't feel like it was anything more than what we where doing with D&D at the time. But the PCs really weren't challenged in combat by anything that was more than 2 PL below them.

I don't understand what you could possibly mean by "shouldn't."

 

[kaomera]

I don't understand what you could possibly mean by "shouldn't."

Maybe "shouldn't" is the wrong term, my apologies.

It was my experience that three thugs versus a costumed adventurer-type where three very KO'ed thugs. Having serious problems with them is not a result I would expect.

 

[Walking Dad]

It mirrors the JLA or the Avengers, you mean. There are a few X-Men in that category of power, over the years. You know what all of those individuals have in common? I wouldn't peg them at PL 10! While it may have less combat potential, I think being able to zip around the world is at least as significant, in terms of writing an adventure story, as being able to bounce a rocket off your chest. I never said I objected to globe-trotting speedsters, just that I thought PL should be applicable to their most significant abilities.

Under current rules, you can built superman as PL 10 / 150pp (I have seen it). Most PL ruling is based on perspective. Has JLA Batman a higher PL than the streets of Gotham? Is he a different superhero?

BTW: Members of the X-Men
Wolverine
Magneto
Colossus
Namor
Professor X to few?

Ice-man is considered an Omega Level Mutant...

...
(So far as I know, BTW, isn't Quicksilver still the fastest character in the Marvel universe, aside from long range teleporters? And Quicksilver is definitely not higher than PL 10. In fact, Taliesin (rules-guru/hero-builder supreme on Atomic think Tank) pegs him at PL 9.)

I actually think Northstar is faster. Have you seen his twin-sister's one-shot during siege? All the history, she was either as fast or slower as him.

Regular Thugs (PL 2) with submachine guns instead of pistols. It requires a good roll to hit the Costumed Adventurer, but after being under fire for three rounds, the Costumed Adventurer got winged. Still, you know the job is dangerous when you take it. What stings is that the Costumed Adventurer has no car. Meanwhile, the Speedster is having crepes in Paris.

Doesn't submachine guns increase their effective PL?

*Shrug*

As a longtime member of CBR, the one truism still holds.

Superspeed is an INHERENTLY broken power.

Unless the opponent is Juggernaut (aka...I can tank Hulk at his angriest and take Thor's might godblast in the face without flinching), superspeed simply trumps all.

Can you please explain this?

 

[Votan]

*Shrug*

As a longtime member of CBR, the one truism still holds.

Superspeed is an INHERENTLY broken power.

Unless the opponent is Juggernaut (aka...I can tank Hulk at his angriest and take Thor's might godblast in the face without flinching), superspeed simply trumps all.

What is CBR?

The only power that I'd find more annoying as a DM is Magick style teleports (groups and teleport changes both time and space). The failure chances would be the only redeeming feature . . .

 

[Votan]

Under current rules, you can built superman as PL 10 / 150pp (I have seen it). Most PL ruling is based on perspective. Has JLA Batman a higher PL than the streets of Gotham? Is he a different superhero?

Superman has had many interpretations so it is possible to do a lot with a minimal interpretation. But he almost tied the Flash in a race once so if he is PL10 that says very bad things about the Flash's power level . . .

 

[Relique du Madde]

What is CBR?

Comic Book Resources.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Has JLA Batman a higher PL than the streets of Gotham?

Yeah, much higher. This is a difficulty in simulating comics. Mostly the rule is that a hero is more powerful in their own book. Batman is an exception to this.