Why arn't Controllers Sexy

[Herschel]

I rolled out my throwing Seeker this weekend and it was a very useful character. We had exactly ONE melee character, so my first-level controller had to hit the front line and did pretty well, even with a less-than-stellar AC. He's ridiculously accurate and being a human with three at-wills made him very versatile. His Swarm of Bats Daily was more impressive than it looked on paper also.

 

[Budalic]

Also, and this is just my opinion. I feel like the Wizard, which to me is the poster boy for controllers, is underpowered. Especially when you do not include the Arcane Powers book or feats from the other PHBs. I think people unconsciously noticed this and have written off all controllers.

True, the PHB wizard is underpowered. But wizard with Arcane Power and with all DDI support was so strong they had to nerf it. First with orb of imposition march nerf and then by nerfing enlarge spell this month (no enlarged dailies; but the real focus of erata was nerfing swordmages and sorcerers which multiclased into wizard).

As for AoE damage thing, play Genasi Elemental Empowerment Wizard. Great damage and solid control. I'd pick that over the sorcerer any day.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think Controllers are underrated. I have alot of fun playing my wizard. The reason I think why controllers are not as popular is because they do not do alot of damage to one foe. I believe that most everyone likes the tactic of taking down a single foe at a time so they they think spreading damage is detrimental. Then there is the fact that the other roles have access to many area attacks and status effects. This makes the controller probably the easiest role to not have in the party.

Also, and this is just my opinion. I feel like the Wizard, which to me is the poster boy for controllers, is underpowered. Especially when you do not include the Arcane Powers book or feats from the other PHBs. I think people unconsciously noticed this and have written off all controllers.

I think the problem people have with the wizard is they don't know how it is supposed to work and they do a sucky wizard build, then they write off the class. Most of the wizard builds I've seen people have problems with are ones where they ignored the good controllery powers and instead tried to make a pseudo striker, which fails miserably. There's nothing underpowered at all about the wizard, you simply have to take good powers. Having a decent damage output power is fine, but I roll my eyes every time I see a wizard with none of the good controller options.

Even with a BAD wizard build though its still only underpowered when you aren't popping daily powers. Its possible to take all rotten dailies, but anyone with enough sense to take Flaming Sphere or Stinking Cloud is going to at least single-handedly win one encounter a day at low levels.

 

[Mengu]

I think the problem people have with the wizard is they don't know how it is supposed to work and they do a sucky wizard build, then they write off the class. Most of the wizard builds I've seen people have problems with are ones where they ignored the good controllery powers and instead tried to make a pseudo striker, which fails miserably. There's nothing underpowered at all about the wizard, you simply have to take good powers. Having a decent damage output power is fine, but I roll my eyes every time I see a wizard with none of the good controller options.

I very much concur. It pains me to say I've seen wizards with Magic Missile, Scorching Burst, Force Orb, and Acid Arrow/Flaming Sphere at first level. Coming from a 3.x mentality, people see Scorching burst, and think whoa, fireball at-will, and they grab it. Unfortunately they are unaware the more or less iconic blaster wizard build has moved on to become the new sorcerer, but it is still the wizard who carries the iconic spell names such as Fireball and Lightning Bolt.

Perhaps wizard should have been a striker to fit the expectations of more people, but from a play perspective, I'm very glad it's a controller. Maybe a new class such as the speculated Elementalist (or maybe Mage) could replace that old icon as a striker wizard, though it would be hard to do without a lot of overlap.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I very much concur. It pains me to say I've seen wizards with Magic Missile, Scorching Burst, Force Orb, and Acid Arrow/Flaming Sphere at first level. Coming from a 3.x mentality, people see Scorching burst, and think whoa, fireball at-will, and they grab it. Unfortunately they are unaware the more or less iconic blaster wizard build has moved on to become the new sorcerer, but it is still the wizard who carries the iconic spell names such as Fireball and Lightning Bolt.

Perhaps wizard should have been a striker to fit the expectations of more people, but from a play perspective, I'm very glad it's a controller. Maybe a new class such as the speculated Elementalist (or maybe Mage) could replace that old icon as a striker wizard, though it would be hard to do without a lot of overlap.

Well, it isn't even that any of the spells you mention are BAD on their own (well, maybe Acid Arrow, though it has a niche use against trolls I suppose). Scorching Burst plus Storm Pillar for instance is an OK at-will selection. Force Orb as your only damaging spell isn't terrible (though still not as good as something with some control). I know everyone is enamored of Thunderwave but personally I find it too swingy myself. Anyway, you can build a really good wizard and even just using PHB1 it will work, though the options available are pretty limited.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I don't see how any role that has a class (Invoker) that can save-ends Stun (and daze on a miss) at level 1 can be considered anything other than dead sexy.

But seriously, what others have said: a well-built controller dominates encounters, especially when using their Daily powers. Obviously this is easer to do at high-Heroic and up than at level 1.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't see how any role that has a class (Invoker) that can save-ends Stun (and daze on a miss) at level 1 can be considered anything other than dead sexy.

But seriously, what others have said: a well-built controller dominates encounters, especially when using their Daily powers. Obviously this is easer to do at high-Heroic and up than at level 1.

I think the wizard is so iconic that for most players it IS the controller role. I have yet to see anyone play an Invoker. Its a great class, but just not iconic in any way. Few players with a character concept come along and say "aha, Invoker fits this perfectly!". People DO play Druid often enough but I don't think they really realize they are playing a controller half the time (and its not all that hard to bung up a Druid either if you have an unclear idea of what you want to do with it). Druids also can make a more credible stab at playing a strikery role than a wizard can.

 

[Thatwackyned]

Is it that Controllers should be throwing out more Debuffs?

How would you make them more "Hey, I'm glad the Controller came with us."?

 

[KarinsDad]

I think the problem people have with the wizard is they don't know how it is supposed to work and they do a sucky wizard build, then they write off the class.

What's the definition of a sucky wizard build?

The player takes Scorching Burst and Magic Missile?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

What's the definition of a sucky wizard build?

The player takes Scorching Burst and Magic Missile?

I think Scorching Burst and Magic Missile is probably a bit of a wimpy combination control-wise, yes. I'd want one at-will that blocks up the battlefield in some fashion or debuffs an enemy. Replacing either of those spells with say Storm Pillar or Magic Missile with Winged Horde or something like that would be an improvement. Honestly wizards are one class that could REALLY use a third at-will a whole lot as the choices there are pretty difficult.

Even so SB + MM by itself may not be so bad. Its when the player also selects say Force Orb for an encounter power and Acid Arrow for a level 1 daily. They simply have NO control at all, so effect they're a striker, but without striker dice. Its like running a rogue and never getting CA, your DPR will be terrible and you really don't DO anything else that makes up for it. With no strong class feature and no ongoing effects of any kind, no debuffing, and no condition placement or effect on terrain the character simply can't pull its weight in combat at all. I've seen a lot of builds of this type and inevitably the player is going to feel like they are not valuable to the party and inferior to the real strikers, which is true, but obviously not the fault of the wizard class per-se. Its certainly not BAD to have one pure damage power at level 1 and any of the pure damage wizard powers can be effective, you just can't stack up on them like that.