Is necromancy evil or only as harmless as talking to your dead grandmother?

[Rechan]

A necromancer who is doing his best to help the dead find rest will almost certainly be creepy, but evil? Maybe not so much.

Haley Joel Osment, Necromancer!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And sometimes, the dead just want to help you throw some pottery...

 

[pacdidj]

On the other hand, I would disallow player character necromancy as offensive to every pre-modern moral system (which all took care of their dead in some manner)

(emphasis mine)

This has been said already in this thread, but I think it bears repeating that the notion that "everything glossed as 'necromancy' within D&D rules and settings is morally offensive to pre-modern sensibilities" is highly ethnocentric (but then again, so are the terms modern, post-modern, and necromancy ). Speaking with the dead in particular has long been and still is standard practice in many non-Western religions, like those of Shona people in Zimbabwe, who speak with their ancestors through people who serve as mediums and allow the ancestors' spirits to possess their body and impart advice to their descendants about matters of concern to their communities.

Come to think of it, speaking with the dead also features prominently in the practice of Western religions. Check out the history of the dia de los muertos for example, a Christian holiday celebrated all over Latin America. And for my money, some of the core tropes of Christianity have strong necromantic overtones: namely eternal life and resurrection.

So, I dunno. If you're going for medieval realism, I'd be careful ascribing such black-and-white anti-necromantic sensibilities even to imaginary medieval Europeans, because, while the historical record is somewhat robust regarding the views of the medieval church, it is decidedly sparse regarding the moral and cosmological viewpoints of the broader (largely non-literate) society.

EDIT: plus see Dannyalcatraz's earlier post, which hints at the serious non-squeamishness of medieval Westerners.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And for my money, some of the core tropes of Christianity have strong necromantic overtones: namely eternal life and resurrection.

Not just that- you did see those sites I linked to in Post #56 of this thread showing churches & ossuaries with decor made with skulls & bones, right? Those aren't carved stone or poured concrete- those are really made with human bone. And those are not the only Christian sites that did that kind of thing...

 

[pacdidj]

Not just that- you did see those sites I linked to in Post #56 of this thread showing churches & ossuaries with decor made with skulls & bones, right? Those aren't carved stone or poured concrete- those are really made with human bone. And those are not the only Christian sites that did that kind of thing...

Yeah, I meant to give you a shout out. Thanks for the reminder. And great pics!

 

[Rechan]

Speaking with the dead in particular has long been and still is standard practice in many non-Western religions, like those of Shona people in Zimbabwe, who speak with their ancestors through people who serve as mediums and allow the ancestors' spirits to possess their body and impart advice to their descendants about matters of concern to their communities.

The Chinese have a strong tradition of talking to the dead, as ancestral worship is big there. There are shrines in people's homes and if they don't give respect to their ancestors, the ancestors' ghosts will get angry and do things to them. There are mediums who are possessed by the spirits of the dead and write down messages. One of the practices during a funeral is for a Taoist priest to "descend into the underworld to collect the soul of the departed and free it", represented by a dance with the priest collecting a paper representation of the departed. And of course Taoist priests exercise magic to ward away ghosts/angry spirits from the community.

There's also a Central American culture who see the tarantula as a messenger to the dead (because the tarantula lives underground). They have a ritual where the spider is eaten, and the eater then is able to commune with the dead.

Not to mention the Polynesian culture that eats the deceased relative, because they believe the graveyard is within their stomachs; the soul of the departed joins with the rest of the family, and thus is never gone.

And for my money, some of the core tropes of Christianity have strong necromantic overtones: namely eternal life and resurrection.

Also (symbolic) cannibalism of blood and flesh.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Not just that- you did see those sites I linked to in Post #56 of this thread showing churches & ossuaries with decor made with skulls & bones, right? Those aren't carved stone or poured concrete- those are really made with human bone. And those are not the only Christian sites that did that kind of thing...

I've been to one of those places.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yeah...creepy, huh?

I haven't been to one of those, but even a regular ossuary can get to you.

 

[Nifft]

Come to think of it, speaking with the dead also features prominently in the practice of Western religions. Check out the history of the dia de los muertos for example, a Christian holiday celebrated all over Latin America. And for my money, some of the core tropes of Christianity have strong necromantic overtones: namely eternal life and resurrection.

Let's not forget praying to Saints, and using various dead & dessicated Saint-parts for healing rituals.

Christians have been trying to talk to dead people for quite a while. Granted, it's only from a short list of officially recommended dead people, but the fact remains the same.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Midnight Dawns]

Well part of the reason necromancy is viewed as wrong is because it is seen as a desecration of the body. The times it is seen as a desecration of the soul are sometimes confusing as, in my experience, half of the time the idea is that it is just a body animated and not a soul enslaved. Now you could view it as the soul is used to power the animation, so you aren't forcing someone to do something they shouldn't do but rather using them as fuel (still considered evil). So if the necromancy effects the soul, evil. If it goes against cultural/religious beliefs,, "evil". Otherwise, neutral.