Steve Kenson's ICONS: Superpowered Roleplaying from Adamant Entertainment

[Starfox]

d6-d6 always worked out great in Feng Shui...

I strongly support the d6 - d6 mechanic of Feng Shui. If you use olf-fashioned dice with pips instead of numbers, subtracting pisps from each other is really, really fast and intuitive. I love this mechanic!

That's exactly what it is because you are rolling to generate a number between -5 and +5, and rolling 2d6 and subtracting 7*, if the average roll is 7, gives you 0.

In actual play, I find this way, as well as the GM and player each rolling one die, to be much slower. Again, counting and matching pips on dice is real fast.

*this is actually the second of two ways to roll the 2d6 to generate the -5 to +5 range. The first way is to have two different colored d6s, one is the positive die, the other the negative die. You subtract the roll on the negative die from the positive die to get the result.

Isn't this what we're talking about when we say 1d6 - 1d6?

There is a third way, which I think is inferior but want to mention for completeness.

• Roll two colored d6, one positive, one negative.
• If they come up the same, the result is zero
• If they come up different, ignore the higher absolute result (if one is 1, the other 3, ignore the 3).
• If the remaining die is the positive die, this is the positive value of the roll. If the remaining die is the negative die, the result on this die is a negative end result.

This is exactly the same distribution-wise as 2d6 -7 or 1d6 - 1d6. It replaces subtraction with a sorting mechanism. I first saw it in a Babylon 5 RPG.

Makes me wonder why he didn't just go with a 3d6 curve.

3d6 has a much wonkier distribution curve than 2d6, which much of the statistical distribution tightly packed up in the middle. The chance of rolling 15+ on 3d6 is very small, and small modifier near the break points greatly changes distribution.

 

[Kenson]

Just wanted to pop in and say that the discussion of dice mechanics, probability distribution, common availability of d6s, etc. with ICONS is all pretty spot-on where my own thoughts are concerned. I'm very glad to hear kids are picking up on the game as easily as I'd hoped they would!

 

[SuperChris]

When I asked "So if daddy was to make a game for you to play in, what of those ways was your favorite?" the answer was "the one with the good die minus the bad die." When asked if she knows why, she says "Not really, I just like it and it's pretty cool."

So perhaps preferring specific dice methods is genetic is what we've determined here.

I went through the d6-d6 and 2d6-7 methods with my son. We used some spotted dice. After a few rolls he took the 2nd d6 and replaced it with a smaller one from our dice bowl. He used the smaller die, rather than a different colored one, for the negative because "it's easier to remember."

After that, he preferred the d6-d6 method because, though he is good at math, it was simpler for him because he didn't have to work with that -7. Fair enough.

You could probably have the players roll up their characters at the same time, everybody rolling for abilities, number of powers and number of specialties, then go "round robin" concentrating on one character at a time for picking powers, picking specialties and coming up with aspects (qualities and challenges). Having a familiarity with other characters by doing it together will not only save some time, but facilitate the next step: team creation.

That's how we did character creation back in high school (when we had more time) and were exploring a new game system. I still prefer group character creation when we can manage it because it seems to result in a more cohesive group.

-SC

 

[Malistyr]

I am playing with a group of kids now (12, 11, 10, 4) and we are having a blast. My 10 year old has read the book and is now working on is own campaign!

They don't seem to have a problem with any of the dice roll methods (obviously the 4 year old needs some help but he knows how to roll the bones and knows his powers well enough to at least provide comic relief and the occasional critical assistance). I started with them rolling 2d6 + ability with me adding +7 to all target numbers but we tried the normal d6-d6 last game and I think it went a bit smoother after a couple of pages since it is easier to judge things when you don't have to factor in 7. Actually, I think they understand it better than I do!

They are immensely enjoying the game!

 

[pawsplay]

That FUDGE dice nonsense is one of the main reasons the system languished away in obscurity for like ten years. Needlessly cutesy.

How is it cutesy? It's one of several really basic shake-and-bake resolution mechanics. I don't think it's supposed to impress anyone. You have roll over, roll under, successes, dice pools, and fudge dice, basically. It produces a simple curve, and involves no two digit addition.

 

[Smeelbo]

Fudge, fate

I play a variety of FATE based games: Spirit of the Century, Starblazer Adventures, Diaspora, and so on, and the FUDGE dice are not really an issue. It gives a solid bell curve, and is easy to adjudicate on the fly. SbA uses d6-d6, and that's easy, too, although the curve is pretty wild.

Basicly, have a dice throw that averages 0 makes it pretty easy to set difficulties and expected outcomes.

I like FUDGE dice, they work very well for me. As does FATE generally.

As for obsurity, the various FATE games sell pretty well for indie RPGs.


Smeelbo

 

[mxyzplk]

How is it cutesy? It's one of several really basic shake-and-bake resolution mechanics. I don't think it's supposed to impress anyone. You have roll over, roll under, successes, dice pools, and fudge dice, basically. It produces a simple curve, and involves no two digit addition.

Gimmick dice you can't get anywhere normal = cutesy.

P.S. Speaking of cutesy, Pawsplay, my daughter insists I tell you that your avatar is cute.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I'm very glad to hear kids are picking up on the game as easily as I'd hoped they would!

Ha! Evil Supervillain Adamant Man, your nefarious plot to steal our children away from D&D by tempting them with delicious simple fun games won't work here! We're on to you now.

@Morrus;

 

[Relique du Madde]

Ha! Evil Supervillain Adamant Man, your nefarious plot to steal our children away from D&D by tempting them with delicious simple fun games won't work here! We're on to you now.

Just wait until M&M 3e comes out. Then Steve's plot to take your children away from DnD will be a two front war. Three if you count the previous versions of M&M and four if you count True 20

 

[TarionzCousin]

Ha! Evil Supervillain Adamant Man, your nefarious plot to steal our children away from D&D by tempting them with delicious simple fun games won't work here! We're on to you now.

[mention ]Kenson[/mention]

I typed in "Kenson" and it shows up as "Morrus." THEY MUST BE THE SAME PERSON!!!

This is going to seriously mess up my world-view paradigm.