Essentials Cleric

[Atlemar]

100 percent compatible

My initial thought on reading the article was that this 100 percent compatibility claim was not valid, because we would have two sets of rules out there for each class. A DM would have to ask a new player, are you playing an Essentials cleric or a regular cleric?

After reading this board, though, it seems the consensus is that the warpriest, slayer, knight, and other Essentials subclasses will function entirely within the parameters of the existing classes, and will do things that clerics do.

I'm still nervous about Essentials.

 

[KidSnide]

My initial thought on reading the article was that this 100 percent compatibility claim was not valid, because we would have two sets of rules out there for each class. A DM would have to ask a new player, are you playing an Essentials cleric or a regular cleric?

Well, you'd still want to ask a new player that. But that's not any different than asking someone if they are playing a melee cleric or a laser cleric. From a game-running perspective, builds matter a lot -- and they should.

What looks different about the Essentials builds:
(1) Some of them are mechanically less complicated than 2008-9 builds.
(2) There are fewer mandatory choices to make in constructing such a build. (It looks like the domains include sets of default powers. You can customize them to a certain extent, but only if you want to.)
(3) Some or all of them use a non-standard set of at-will/encounter/daily powers.

-KS

 

[Jack99]

He's assuming Wizards don't have Dailies because of the errata to their Encounter powers.

You are indeed correct that it is just an assumption of that guy.

I do not think the wizard will lose his dailies - that would more or less go against all that they are trying to do. Now, I had hoped that they had removed the encounter powers completely (for the wizard, that is), but alas, that seems not to be the case.

On the other hand, I agree that there is a good chance that the martial classes will be the ones (or some of them at least) who lose all dailies.

Actually I'm willing to bet the cleric in the red box doesn't have dailies.

I will be your Huckleberry!

Too bad you aren't a paying member, and we could bet the right to pick the other's avatar, for say a month or two

 

[TerraDave]

Thats a build with benefits.

For most people who wanted to play a melee cleric, this already seems just better.

"The Heroes" book will certainly have more domains, will it have other cleric subclasses?

 

[MrMyth]

Thats a build with benefits.

For most people who wanted to play a melee cleric, this already seems just better.

How so?

Aside from getting access to shields, I'm not feeling any real power creep compared to existing builds. I think it will be useful and stand on its own well - and probably work well as a cleric that is able to hang out on the front lines (as compared to the more fragile beat-stick of the PHB Strength Cleric), but I don't see anything too out of balance here.

 

[Scribble]

My initial thought on reading the article was that this 100 percent compatibility claim was not valid, because we would have two sets of rules out there for each class. A DM would have to ask a new player, are you playing an Essentials cleric or a regular cleric?

After reading this board, though, it seems the consensus is that the warpriest, slayer, knight, and other Essentials subclasses will function entirely within the parameters of the existing classes, and will do things that clerics do.

I'm still nervous about Essentials.

To me it seems like all they essentially are (hah see what I did there???) are builds where WoTC has made many of the choices for you.

Instead of getting a slot for a new power you have a set class feature that is basically the same as whatever power it takes the place of.

 

[mkill]

There is an interesting "back to the roots" flavor in the current announcement. The class table of the Cleric has a distinctive "old school" feel to it, and before that we had the reinstated auto-hit magic missile...

Looks like they're not just aiming for completely new players, who weren't even born when TSR faltered, but also for some of the old guard who are still on the fence because 4th edition is missing some key D&D feel for them.

Speculating about the other classes...

- Ranger (Dex) and Paladin (Cha) will be A-shaped like the Cleric
- The Slayer Fighter will lean striker, the Knight will lean pure Defender / Tank. I don't expect a mounted path as that would be too complicated.
- Wizard will see some nod towards Spell schools (old school)
- Rogue will likely have a Duelist and a Sniper build. One will be Cha (Halfling), the other could be Wis (Elf) or Int (Eladrin)
- It's possible (but unlikely) that the Warlock will be the one without Dailies, to distinguish him from the Wizard more
- If the Essentials Line sells well enough we'll see a third book with Warlord, Bard etc.

 

[SabreCat]

Keep in mind the Red Box deals with level 1 and 2.

Hasn't it been said repeatedly that the red box goes up to level 3? I thought it was just the sample adventure that only spanned levels 1-2.

The misquotes and clarifications on all of this are starting to make my head hurt...

 

[thecasualoblivion]

- If the Essentials Line sells well enough we'll see a third book with Warlord, Bard etc.

I can definitely see it. My guess for a third book of four Essentials classes would be Warlord, Bard, Barbarian, and Swordmage.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Or... maybe they'll appeal to people who complain about the Martial source, and Essentials fighters and/or rogues won't have dailies.

Exactly my thought. A simpler set of martial classes without daily powers. Give them some stronger basic class features, like a better but simplified control mechanic and you can hand it to a newbie and they can hope to play it. A rogue and ranger with a simple flat damage bonus to all attacks, etc.

Really though I honestly have to say I think a lot of this simplification attempt is mis-aimed. It's not class build options that make 4e complex to play. Its all the fiddly stuff that goes on DURING play that scrambles the brains of new players.