What would WotC need to do to win back the disenchanted?

[Mournblade94]

After reading many of these posts though, what WOTC could do to get my money at least...

at $8/month... support 3.5 and pathfinder. Not even in articles. All the tools and generators, I would definitely subscribe to that as long as it worked, no matter what company was running it. Well as long as they did not funnel money into terrorist organizations.

 

[Hussar]

Something's wrong with this, in that there's many magazines out there that can only dream of those sales numbers and yet still manage to keep going...

Lanefan

Look at the advertising in those magazines and you'll see why.

But, one wonders, now that we've heard from the horse's mouth, if RC will finally stop rumourmongering. Tone down the vitriol, please. You can make your point without adding insults. - PCat

 

[Elf Witch]

One of the problems with using the word boycott is that boycott implies that you would buy products from the company if you were not boycotting it. Like when I boycott tuna companies that use certain style nets that capture dolphins. I would buy tuna from them if they changed their fishing practices.

I am not boycotting WOTC because they are doing something I don't like. I am not buying from them because they are not making any products that I wish to buy at this time.

It has often been implied from some posters that as a DnD gamer people like me should support WOTC regardless of how we feel about the product. Which is really kind of silly if you think about it. Why spend money on something you don't like.

I don't wish harm to WOTC I don't want to see them go out of business. I have said before some of their PR when they first rolled out 4E was handled rather poorly IMO but it is all water under the bridge now.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I suspect that, had the VTT worked out as planned (and had, therefore, WotC been able to offer players of older editions a substantial reason for joining the DDI) we would have seen DDI support for "classic" editions about a year after 4e rolled out. And then, maybe, we would have had classic sprawling megadungeons hosted through the WotC site. Good business for them, and lots of money involved if every DM had 20+ paying players.

Had the VTT worked as planned, I could even see WotC allowing a profit-sharing model for some DMs, so that they made a % of their players' fees, allowing them to DM full time. Again, there is more than a small chance that WotC could have beaten WoW with such a strategy.



Sadly, there is no VTT.




RC

Been skimming this thread, but this leapt out and RC I think that you have nailed it with Gleemax as the content channel from non WoTC stuff.
I think that this is still thetarget, but now it will take longer and be somewhat harder to pull off.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I feel bad saying this.

But what if 4th Edition does satisfy and has an enthusiastic and appreciative audience? (it does) What if it already draws upon the best aspects of it's predecessors and leaves the other stuff behind because that other stuff isn't all that great? (opinions here, but.. yes I think it does).

That's the real issue. And this isn't about long time players. I've been playing D&D continuously since 1978. I played D&D3 and 3.5 weekly for the entire run of the game. (I think I may have missed a couple of holidays in there).

What if 4th Edition is the greatest version of the game that has ever been published. I know I think it is.

The reality is: the clock is never going backwards. Never. Never ever.

There isn't going to be a 5th edition that looks anything like what the self-nominated non-customers want it to look like because they have defined themselves out of the equation. And nobody is going to bend over backwards to listen to the clamor of the avowed non-customer or the bitter ex-customer when there's an easy to deal with fan community readily available to cater to. If it changes at all, any new edition will look like 4th Edition, but with changes that actual 4th edition players have wanted or will be delighted by. Or it will incorporate more changes that they think will appeal to new players. But as far as "nods to older edition fans"? I doubt there will be any.

I do agree that there will be no older edition PDFs. There will be no re-releases of AD&D2e or 1e or the Cyclopedia. That's just crazy. Why would they do that?

Well, you should feel bad saying this because one day you may be left behind, forgotten and no longer cared about by the company that makes your favorite game.

 

[renau1g]

Funny, all I need is a sheet of paper and a pencil. Doesn't get much easier than that.

Like I said you can do it that way. When I played 2e and 3e and M&M and many other games that's all there is. My point is if you want to scale down that troll to say level 5 from 8 you can do it by hand or in the fraction of a second have it computed for you.

I can do all the accounting entries for an organization with a pencil in a ledger, but is it easier to do on a computer? Heck yeah. So if I'm putting together and adventure and there's 25-40 enemies in it, I can save at least 5 mins per monster not having to write out the stats, so therefore at least 125 - 200 minutes of prep time each week. Like I said, I would rather spend that time doing other stuff. Heck for that time I could go play LFR every week and squeeze in an extra game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: Target Markets & Teen $$$

I don't buy into the "younger people have more money" idea. More time yes. Money no. I spend more now, in my 30s on my hobby, than I ever did in my 20s (of course I blame Paizo).

Actually all I said was that if you target 35% of the market and I target 65%, all other things being equal, I'll make more money. The teen market is always held forth as being more desireable than the older market and I simply question that analysis. Teens may have buying power, but they are never the primary buying power in almost any market.

People have hit some fundamental "truths" of marketing in the last few pages.

Selling to teens and young adults is the right move in a capitalist system. You hook them early, get them devoted to spending on your product over their lifetime.

<snip>

But consumers' only relationship with a company is to be exploited, to spend money on product. No company cares about you, personally, or ever did. The feeling that they did was just the result of marketing to your demographic.

Don't underestimate how much disposable income the young peoples have these days. It's much higher than it used to be, even adjusting for inflation.

When I was a kid I used to get 10p pocket money a week. Now the average in the UK is over £6.

According to this inflation guide there's only been between a three and four-fold increase in prices over that time period, 300-400%.

I got my MBA in Sports & Entertainment marketing back in 2005.

Back then I was presented with statistical evidence that Generation Y already had more purchasing power than Generation X...and that's with GenX being 100% of employable age while GenY was just starting to enter the job market in statistically significant numbers. This trend was forecast as being in its early stages and would hold for a couple of decades.

The reason? GenY is essentially shaping up to be as big as the Baby Boom. What they may lack in individual purchasing power they make up in sheer numbers. In addition, studies have shown that children between the ages of 12-18 have a significant say in how entertainment $$$ are allocated in their families.

So from a marketing standpoint, GenX is no longer the target with premium value, its GenY.

With the hobby's true grognards dying off- RIP, Gary & Dave- GenX's purchasing power has been eclipsed by the purchasing power of teens and young adults.

([fist-shaking old dude]Damn kids![/fist-shaking old dude])

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: "rules aren't copyrightable" (as seen in some XP I received for post #345, pg23 of this thread)

That's basically true...as long as you don't reproduce them exactly...which is what pdfs of the original works would be.

IOW, while you can't prevent someone from creating an AD&D clone, you CAN prevent someone from simply reprinting and releasing the game books in their full form.

So, a lingering copyright issue with the older editions of the game vis a vis Gygax & Arneson, etc., could exist if WotC intended to sell unaltered pdfs of the original game books and didn't have the full rights to do so (as I was hinting at in that post). They COULD, however, rewrite the original books and include new art and release them without an issue on those grounds. (Allen v Academic Games)

 

[renau1g]

Depends on the sale agreement when Wizards bought the license from TSR. They might have that ability.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Right- I was just speculating, raising that as a potential, as-yet unrevealed reason why WotC might be balking at releasing pre-3Ed stuff in digital form.