D&D 4E No more reprints of the 4E core books?

[ExploderWizard]

3.5's changes were not that massive.

Well, I could suddenly go to the pitch black darkest reaches of the underworld and cast darkness if I needed to read in an emergency.

 

[Thanlis]

But this line looks bigger than the PHB3, and bigger than 3.5 was, but not quite a "Skills & Powers" debacle.

Huh. The thing is, it really doesn't look like it's bigger than the 3.0 -> 3.5 shift to me. I wonder if the mists of time haven't softened the edges of that one a bit? Here's a reminder.

The collected 4e errata to date are 115 pages long. Steven Cooper's summary of 3.0 to 3.5 changes is 192 pages, in smaller print, and does not include any of the explanatory text included with many of the 4e errata. I haven't done a word count on all of his summary, but one 28 page document has 34,000 words. If that ratio holds true, there are around 233,000 words in his documents. The 4e errata clocks in at around 75,000 words.

I'm not saying the 4e errata don't represent significant change. But to say they're more change than 3.0 to 3.5? I just don't know about that.

 

[Remathilis]

Well, I could suddenly go to the pitch black darkest reaches of the underworld and cast darkness if I needed to read in an emergency.

That's retarded, but not massive.

Massive would be opening the PHB 3.5 and finding sorcerers use spell points, and the who Saving Throw System was replaced by Saga-Style Defenses.

Changes to a rangers HD or to a Balor's DR are minor compared to THAT!

(BTW, I don't think we'll see those kind of changes in DDe either, but I'll wager we see another new Essentials "Heroes" book updating another 4 classes and 5 races by the end of 2011...

 

[ExploderWizard]

That's retarded, but not massive.

Massive would be opening the PHB 3.5 and finding sorcerers use spell points, and the who Saving Throw System was replaced by Saga-Style Defenses.

The Who had a saving throw system! Awesome. Do pinball wizards get an extra bonus to Reflex?

 

[AngryMojo]

Do pinball wizards get an extra bonus to Reflex?

I'd be willing to give it for the supple wrist alone.

 

[ggroy]

The Who had a saving throw system! Awesome. Do pinball wizards get an extra bonus to Reflex?

Whoooooooo are you? It's only a teenage wasteland!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Actually, despite its utter rumourishness I have no problem believing they may well have decided not to do another print run.

These 3 books need errata badly, have been superseded as the most current rules reference by other books, and have value PURELY for the classes in them and any other content not to be reprinted (items, powers). That's a lot, but even if they printed a corrected run of PHBs HALF the material in it is then just 100% redundant to the RC or other Essentials books. They can always print a new book with the PHB1,2, AND 3 classes in it next year, after they run out of PHB1s which are still stocked in most chain stores and FLGS and thus all over the distribution chain.

Worst case for WotC someone wants to start playing and they buy ESSENTIALS! Yay! lol. If they really want a PHB1 class its IN DDI. If they can't get DDI then surely they can find a book somewhere and in 6 months they can make this reprint book (in softcover) so its $15 to pick it up. They can call it "Lost Heroes" or whatever.

Anyway, I don't see the biggie of not reprinting an obsolescent book. However if this does turn out to be true it sucks for the warlord.

 

[DracoSuave]

Outside of nostalgia, there's no good reason for the PH1, DMG1 and MM1 to remain in print if most of what they contain will be in the "evergreen" Rules Compendium, the two Player Essentials books, Dungeon Master Kit and Monster Vault.

The classes in the Player Essentials books do not include all the classes in the PHB, and are variants of the classes that are likely incompatible with previous books still in print such as Martial Power 2.

 

[jasonbostwick]

The classes in the Player Essentials books do not include all the classes in the PHB, and are variants of the classes that are likely incompatible with previous books still in print such as Martial Power 2.

Your point about the various Power books becoming useless without the base classes from the PHBs is the first argument that gives me some concern. That said, anyone who ends up with a copy of Arcane Power and can't get the rules for PHB1 Wizards can get a sub to the DDI for less than a copy of the PHB. (And if they don't want to use a laptop/don't like buying things online/use a Mac/whatever, they can probably pick up a PHB1 secondhand easily).

Another thing that your point called out that hasn't really been mentioned in the thread yet - Martial Power 2 likely isn't "still in print." Most RPG supplements have one big print-run that sells most of its copies in the first few weeks and then pulls in a trickle of sales. Similarly, "no more reprints of the core books" doesn't mean they are suddenly going to disappear from store shelves. If the Essentials becomes the new entry-level product for new players, unsold core books will probably stick around for a long time.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

Based on what we actually know (and not rumors from some Magic: The Gathering website) there will be plenty of material, post-Essentials, which is only from PHB1, etc. The warlord is a excellent example, but there are also plenty of fighters floating around using the PHB1 rules and working fine. It would be deeply bizarre for WotC to suddenly pulls books off the shelves which are the only non-digital source of those rules.

For that mater, the Dark Sun setting includes a new Fighter build. It would be pretty odd for it to be an "Essentials" fighter build, since Essentials isn't being released until later. So you would need the PHB1 (or DDi) to play it.

Also, pulling the DMG in particular would be odd, because most of the books isn't rules, but instead advice for running games.

I think rumor can safely be treated as what it is: flamebait for more essentials threadwars.