D&D 3E/3.5 Severing limbs in combat - 3.0 & 3.5

[0megas]

Use the following method to damage, brake, or sever limbs in melee battle.

This is a small variant that only modifies sunder and allows dismembering, during battle, and before a foe is helpless.
Normally = the only method of severing or dismembering a limb from a living creature is to make them helpless. This makes it impossible to remove a limb during battle and before the creature is dead or dying, with the exception of one spell.

There are several ways to reattach or regrow limbs in D&D, but it is not defined how to remove limbs during battle. The most common suggestion is using criticals and flavor text (ie you did 10pt of damage and your hit severed the knoll’s arm off). There are very few players that would except the loss of their PC’s limb as part of flavor text and any random factor favors the enemies. Thus many wanted a non-random method that accomplished this goal before a target died.

This is how it is done.

The attacker must make a sunder attempt against a living target’s limb that is within their melee threat reach. Height is a factor, if the limb is above the attackers reach then they can not target it. All of the rules of sundering apply except the limb has its own AC and it’s hit points are determined as a percentage of the target’s max HP.

Limbs AC = The targets full AC and reduce the size modifier by 2 size categories. Refer to page 134 PHB. This represents the size of the limb compared to the targets full size. Examples: a human would go from 0 to +2, a gnome would go from a +1 to a +4, and so on.

If the limb is equipped with a weapon that offers any bonus to hit then that bonus is added to the limb’s AC as a circumstantial bonus. Spells that increase a players ability to hit can also be counted in this AC bonus. Arms equipped with any shield larger then a buckler have total cover an may not be targeted. If a PC is equipped with a tower shield then the leg behind the shield also has total cover. In most case a shield has to be sundered to bits before the limb can be targeted.

Sundering through armor makes sundering limbs too tedious and most players lost interest, thus armor is used only to determine a successful hit. Hitting an armored limb means striking an area of the limb that is not covered. All armor has chink points including full plate.

Limb HP = Divide the targets max HP by the total number of limbs -2 (minimum 2 limbs) this is the limbs HP. Count only arms, legs, wings, and any limb that can perform an unarmed or natural strike, not counting the head.

Although “limb damage” is lethal damage, it is tracked in the same manner as non-lethal damage. Every point of damage done to a limb is applied to the targets current HP. Tracking limb HP is only to determine the amount of damage the limb has sustained. Note; a sunder limb attempt against a creature that is immune to criticals is ineffective and does no damage.

Limb Damage Effects

Disabled = at 1/2 limb HP. For all intensive purposes the limb can not preform it’s normal functions. If needed disabled arms and wings can still be flailed in the way of an attack to the head. So; the head can not be targeted unless all block able limbs have been broken or severed, the target is helpless, or the attacker uses the feat Head Shot.
Arms = the hand is unable to grasp anything and can’t perform simple gestures or skills.
Legs = a bipedal target can’t stand while threatened. Quadruped may stand with 3 legs. Maniped are unaffected.
Wings = the target can not fly or even glide.
Tail = If the target depends on it’s tail to fly like most dragons do, then it can not fly but it may still glide.

Claw, Hooves and Talons = Creatures with claw like attacks can make a clumsy claw attack with a disabled limb. The creature takes a -2 to their attack and they make the attack as if their strength bonus was “0”. If these limbs are also used to remain standing then they may do so but they are unable to move while threatened.

Broken = (bludgeoning) limb HP = 0 or less. The limb is still attached but it is fractured, shattered, or there is a protruding bone. The limb can not be moved on it’s own. DC = 15 heal check to set the bone. Regenerate is needed to mend the bone or 1 months time to heal naturally even after the creature’s HP has been restored.

Severed = (slashing) limb HP = 0 or less. It's missing! Refer to healing below.

Excessive Limb Damage = Damage from an attack can NOT exceed the max hit points of a limb. Plus severing a limb does not trigger the cleave feat. Example: If a player scores a critical hit to sever the limb of a Gnoll with a max HP of 11, and 1/2 of 11 HP is 5.5 rounded up to (6), then any damage exceeding 6 pts is wasted. This makes severing work on low CR monsters.

Secondary Damage - If a limb is missing or broken it represents a traumatic injury; so treat it like being hit with a weapon of wounding = -1 Constitution each round until stabilized - heal check DC 15. Con HP damage reduces both current and max HP so they continue to take damage every other round, and they can even die (bleed out) if not attended too.

Healing - Cure spells will not mend a broken bone nor regrow a missing limb. Magical healing targets the whole body at once, thus only a portion of any cure spell applies to limb damage - (unless the only damage a PC has sustained is to a limb.) Divide the total regained points by the number of damaged limbs and the body. A healer can target just one limb but any extra recovered HP over the limb HP is lost in the same way excess damage is. Disabled limbs can not be used until fully healed and if a character is regaining health by resting then the limb is the last to heal.

Two Handed Weapons = With the feat Monkey Grip a player may wield a 2 handed melee weapon in one hand. There is more to Monkey Grip but, in a nutshell, this makes welding weapons in this manor like a proficiency. A disabled fighter with a 2 handed weapon can wield it as if they where un-proficient with it in one hand.

Alternate Movement
Hobbling or crawling (Base land speed = 5) can not run
A crutch 5gp (Base land speed = 10) max run x2
A wood leg 15gp (Base land speed = 20) max run x3
Clockwork Leg 300gp (Base land speed = Normal) Charisma -1

Battle Effectiveness - Disabling, braking, or severing a limb only prohibits the use of that limb and the skill checks requiring that limb. There are no negatives to using other limbs to attack. Most often foes can continue to attack with the loss of one limb. DM may adjust moral modifiers to determine when the foes choose to flee. Sundering limbs vs direct damage is comparable in the number of rounds it takes to defeat a foe due to the additional AC and attacks of opportunity.

Statistics = Accounting for all monsters in the books and factoring by level vs CR; only 1 in every 58th foe would be both able and willing to attempt sundering a hero’s limbs. Most would determine the attack of opportunity to not be worth it.

Clerics can reattach or regenerate lost or broken limbs, for a moderate fee (regenerate spell = 910 gold), so it is not that unthinkable to have characters/foes brake or lose limbs in battle. It will force them to think on their feet (or foot in this case) and adjust their tactics accordingly. It also presents the players with more options to diversify their character development.


Kindest Personal Regards
Omegas

Kindest Personal Regards
Omegas

 

[Celebrim]

My experience with called shots is that it effectively bypasses the hit point system to a large extent. You seem to think that this isn't a called shot system, but I can't really understand why you think it isn't.

Your system looks typical of what I've seen, albiet I don't think I've ever seen anyone make it so easy to accomplish. The basic problem here is that in most cases, severing a fighting limb or leg is functionally equivalent to killing the creature. While its 'not dead yet', it renders it effectively helpless - either unable to attack or unable to move. Even if it isn't technically 'helpless', the CR of a creature whose had his limb severed is greatly reduced to the point that killing it does not consume any significant resources. Since incapicitating a creature in this way is much easier than outright killing it (you only need to do 1/8th of its hp), its CR is effectively much lower than advertised.

I think I could end the fun of your system really quickly by having monsters abuse it as heavily as players are likely to. A few giants abusing sunder would leave a typical party looking like the Black Knight in 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail'. And that's to say nothing of what happens to a party that doesn't have access to regenerate.

It's possible to sever limbs under my house rules, but not generally possible to do it deliberately. The actual intent of my rules is to transform certain 'save or die' situations into 'save or suck' as well as providing color to certain 'your probably dead anyway' situations. While on some level I'd like to provide called shots, in practice it effects game balance in unpredictable ways and seems to me poorly suited to D&D's hit point/AC/low lethality combat model.

 

[0megas]

My experience with called shots is that it effectively bypasses the hit point system to a large extent. You seem to think that this isn't a called shot system, but I can't really understand why you think it isn't.

Your system looks typical of what I've seen, albiet I don't think I've ever seen anyone make it so easy to accomplish. The basic problem here is that in most cases, severing a fighting limb or leg is functionally equivalent to killing the creature.

I apologize if it was unclear but that is not true. A creature loses none of its ability to participate in battle it is simply restricted from using a single limb, which is not the much different then sundering a weapon to bits or disarming it. By the time the target loses the second limb they are either dead or almost dead so this is a balanced trade off.

What your overlooking is all that has to be done to sunder a limb, and your exaggerating the overall time to kill the target. In my time trials PC on average save 1 to 2 rounds in a full length battle and may have reduce damage up to 10%.

First you have to dis-arm them, beat their AC, and do enough damage to take the arm off. This is provided they don't reequip or grapple you before you get a shot at the arm.

Here I reworded post 1 to make it easier. Please read it a few times and think about it.

 

[Sylrae]

Called Shot With Hit Point Damage. I'm not entirely sure I like the implementation, but I like the concept. I think they should be higher hit point totals though.

I'd use 1/6 and 1/3 instead of 1/4 and 1/8.

How does healing magic deal with mising limbs? Stump? or Grow Back?

 

[0megas]

Called Shot With Hit Point Damage. I'm not entirely sure I like the implementation, but I like the concept. I think they should be higher hit point totals though.

I'd use 1/6 and 1/3 instead of 1/4 and 1/8.

How does healing magic deal with mising limbs? Stump? or Grow Back?

Honestly I did experiment with higher HP totals but players found it to be less interesting then the straight damage race. The nice thing is this puts more attention and worth on healers.

A player that has two disabled limbs should be no higher then 2/3 health. If one limb was a leg they can still fight normally while sitting. Not a great advantage for the enemy unless they are following the "leg them and leave them tactic" to focus on other players. If both arms are disabled the player can still move normally - possibly shading a few tears.

In the case of the leg a cleric or ally would have to come to the PCs aid.
In the case of both arms the PC can run to the healer.

Healers would have to poor extra spells into get the player back up to full health vs only raising them to a safe level. The advantage is that with disabled limbs the PC has not lost that much health. A disabeled limb can be healed and returned to full function as listed in post one.

Severed or broken limbs on the other hand - Simple healing spells can heal the flesh around the stump or broken bone but the limb is still missing / broken. At full health a broke or severed limb is still unusable. Only through the methods listed in post one can these limbs be restored.

It all works out some how. So far I have had only one player lose two limbs. More then several disabled limbs.

 

[TorintheBadger]

I REALLY like this system for the most part. Everything else I have found requires special equipment and a double crit.

My only question is that shouldn't there be a bigger penalty for losing a limb (or several)? I mean, if I had a limb hacked off, it would probably effect everything about me from Strength checks to dexterity skills to maybe even permanent Con loss!

I'm really interested in this, as I plan to remove a character's limb with a nasty trap in the game I'm currently DMing.

 

[0megas]

I REALLY like this system for the most part. Everything else I have found requires special equipment and a double crit.

My only question is that shouldn't there be a bigger penalty for losing a limb (or several)? I mean, if I had a limb hacked off, it would probably effect everything about me from Strength checks to dexterity skills to maybe even permanent Con loss!

I'm really interested in this, as I plan to remove a character's limb with a nasty trap in the game I'm currently DMing.

Here is the thing Torin. If you think about it losing a limb already implies some of that. I find it easier to say a character simply can not make str checks that require 2 hands. To impose a penalty would cross that fuzzy line that questions a freshly injured limb or a long since healed stump. A one armed man would eventually grow stronger in his single limb then if he had two good limbs. Also after healing he would be as health as normal. So with time, if the limb was not regenerated, the character would still be as strong, constitutionally sound, and dexterous with there one limb as they where with both limbs. They simply would be limited to using just one limb. This would limit climbing but our one armed friend could still throw darts, swim, pick pockets, and hold a rope his allies where hanging from. In stead of pulling them up he could use move actions to walk away from the ledge combined with str checks to maintain his grip and accomplish the same thing.

A one armed character should think of them self as handycapable.

Now on the other spectrum of this fuzzy line, what if our friend just lost their limb, and was stabilized? Well he is still limited to making checks with only one limb. Taking a con penalty at this point would be a double punishment. HP effects aside there really is nothing to suggest that a player would be more susceptible to fail con checks and save after the loss of a limb. Example I would not be more likely to fail a poison save if I lost an arm. Str check on the other hand you do have a point. A freshly lost limb should suggest handicapped. If the player was determined to try then I would suggest the -2 listed in the DMG. If they are trying something exceedingly stupid it should also reopen their wounds. As for Dex; so long as you can move you can dodge. You cant use bows or slings one handed but you can fire hand and lite cross bows once. Trying to fire a heavy cross-bow one handed would be the same as improvising it as another weapon. (-4) This is confirmed with feats like monkey grip for melee weapons.

The final note I would like to leave you with is that every characters is a Hero. After about level 5 they can survive better then 90% of their respective race's population. There are many broke mechanics with that but that is how D&D is set up. One level 20 hero vs text book orc is a one man army. Even if they are limited to one arm.

 

[friedmad]

personally, i would love to use dismemberments in my game. i would only allow dismemberments in the following situations:

1. if a monster has a bite attack and is at least one size category than its target, it can choose to sever a limb on a critical hit.

2. if a monster has a swallow whole ability and has more than an animal intelligence, it can choose to bite off a limb instead of swallowing the entire creature.

3. if a monster has the improved sunder feat (e.g. Hook Horror), and completely sunders an opponent's weapon, there is a 50% chance it instead slashed off/broke/disabled the appendage holidng the sundered weapon instead. this applies to characters as well, who have taken the improved sunder feat, except that they can choose to remove the limb or break the weapon.

4. if a monster has the Rend ability, upon successful completion of the claw/claw attack that leads to the rend attack, it can instead choose to make a sundering attack against an opponent's limb in lieu of the automatic render damage.

5. any character using a slashing weapon and rolling a possible crit to hit, followed by a natural 20 on the Confirm roll, can choose to sever a limb instead of dealing the damage multiplier.

6. vorpal weapons will sever a limb instead of the head as in the stated core rules, at the discretion of the creature/NPC/PC wielding it.

7. any character taking the House feat Limb Severing (prereqs: Cleave, Improved Grapple, Improved Sunder, character level 8) would have two ways to sever a limb: a. subtract 4 from the attack roll of its First Attack of the round, to deliberately-target a limb, using the creature's full AC (plus and minus and circumstantial bonuses/penalties (i.e. flat-footed, disabled, held, etc)). if successful, roll to confirm the same way a crit would be confirmed. the limb is then severed if successful. b. if any normal attack results in a confirmed critical, a limb is severed in lieu of dealing critical damage, at the choice of the attacking creature.

8. any creature dealing enough damage in a single attack to force a fortitude save vs. massive damage or die, would instead be converted into a limb-sever (thus replacing the 'save-or-die' concept with the 'save-or-suck' concept.

some traps, natural conditions, speel effects would have the same concepts applied to them as logically possible in a fantasy setting, provided players are aware of them ahead of time. e.g. flesh-to-stone spell can be used, then a mallet used to dismember a limb; sliding stone trap could be designed to crush and effectively incapacitate an arm or a leg; spring-loaded blade traps would have the same effect; etc.

 

[friedmad]

after reading the Erevis Cale books, i found it decidedly irritating that - despite characters in the stories getting this-or-that severed every-other chapter, and the books supposedly being based on the DnD 3x rules - there was a disconnect between what happens in those novels and there being no rules system for limb-severing.

 

[Dandu]

Probably for a good reason, as it's a PITA for everyone involved.