Are Casters 'still' way better than noncasters after level 6?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Evocation specialist casters were never the problem in 3.5...

Yes, and PF nerfed quite a bit of the save or lose spells to give a new save every round or something similar. Which I think went too far, it's already difficult enough to get enemies to fail one save, no way in hell would I ever use a spell that needed them to fail 2 or more times in a row to have a noticeable effect.

On a semi-related note, other specialists, most notably conjurors, being able to also blast and far too often blast better than evocation specialists was part of the problem in 3.5. Just felt like putting that out there, too.

 

[Kaisoku]

Simply not having all the secondary book's spells (especially the Orb series) really helped bring things back in line.
Never really ran into too many of the big issues just playing core 3.5e in fact...

Regarding the Fighter class, he does get Bravery now, which brings his Will save up to a decent base (+11 final) against certain things. I'd like it if it applied to even just a couple more things (charm for instance), but it's not the end of the world.

I personally had hoped for a wider range of problem solving, rather than just "more good" at combat, but the Paizo team felt that making the Fighter the single best person at "fighting" was the way to go.

I'm a big fan of "half save progressions" though, and if I had had my way with the Figter, I would have given him a +9 final in Reflex, along with 4 skillpoints and possibly a variable combat mechanic (picking combat styles on a per day basis) instead of the armor/weapon training he got.
*shrug*

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Simply not having all the secondary book's spells (especially the Orb series) really helped bring things back in line.
Never really ran into too many of the big issues just playing core 3.5e in fact...

Regarding the Fighter class, he does get Bravery now, which brings his Will save up to a decent base (+11 final) against certain things. I'd like it if it applied to even just a couple more things (charm for instance), but it's not the end of the world.

I personally had hoped for a wider range of problem solving, rather than just "more good" at combat, but the Paizo team felt that making the Fighter the single best person at "fighting" was the way to go.

I'm a big fan of "half save progressions" though, and if I had had my way with the Figter, I would have given him a +9 final in Reflex, along with 4 skillpoints and possibly a variable combat mechanic (picking combat styles on a per day basis) instead of the armor/weapon training he got.
*shrug*

I didn't mind the orb spells. Once I made them Evocations.

I really don't like the PF Fighter, it has to be my least favorite re-write of all the classes. Though, Barbarians with their whole "Unconscious? Ok, I die." thing are a close second. Then there's the monk who gets the ability to ignore Int 13 and Combat Expertise for some combat maneuver feats, but gets left out in the cold in regards to the Greater versions of those feats to make them actually useful...where was I going?

Yeah, I like the armor training for more mobility and bravery is ok/meh. But I really hate weapon training. All it does is flip the Ranger the bird. It might actually make the "problem" (well, I don't like it, at least) of a warrior relying on a single type of weapon to the exclusion of all others worse. And all it does is let you marginally beat things over the head better. When I "fixed" the fighter in my houserules (link in sig), I gave them 4 + int skill points with a decent list, I gave them Weapon Aptitude so that if they happen to find a nice heay flail they can attune to it with their feats and sell off the old greataxe. I gave some martial maneuvers and a lot of flexibility in using them. Basically cribbed a bit from ToB. I know Paizo couldn't do that, but they could have done more to add to the Fighter's versatility. I have never seen a properly built full BAB character that had trouble killing things. They fixed something that didn't need fixing and left almost all the issues intact.

EDIT: I will give Paizo credit on the feats, though. They made a bunch of fighter only high level feats that were either interesting, powerful, or both. Since bonus feats and fighter exclusive feats ARE a fighter's class features, basically, they did a good job of providing some unique high level class features in that manner. Still hate the class itself.

 

[Voadam]

For the record, the Cleric no longer can be superior to a Fighter by casting 3 buff spells, so it's not that bad as it was in 3.5.

Which spells are you specifically referring to?

 

[Starbuck_II]

That was my experience even in 3.0 and 3.5. We had a few instances where the party fighter or barbarian was dominated by an opponent, and sent against the PCs, and he would hit so reliably against the others, even against the spellcasters, that they were spending all their actions drinking healing potions, retreating etc. just to keep from getting sent into negatives, that they weren't able to effectively stop him. When he's got a greataxe, and improved critical, well, his normal damage is high enough....but with one good hit, he was able to demolish the part wizard and ranger/sorcerer.

Sounds like having the Fighter is a liability if they can be turned too easily.

 

[Voadam]

- With skill consolidation, the elimination of cross-class skill costs, retroactive skillpoints on Intelligence bonus, and favored class bonus all made it so pretty much anyone can be more versatile (skills-wise) than before, which helped the 2 skillpoint classes like the Fighter or Paladin.
A human fighter with 10 Int can get 4 skillpoints per level, and putting points into non-class skills only means he's behind by 3 points.

Not nearly as much as I was hoping for.

Want to be a bad ass knight in 3.5? Spend your two skill points on riding and intimidate.

Want to be a bad ass knight in PF? Spend your two skill points on riding and intimidate.

Want to be an athletic fighter? Spend your two points on climb and swim, whether you are in Pathfinder or 3.5.

You can do much better at taking non class skills with your two points in PF, but the skill consolidation mostly happened on the high skill bard/ranger/rogue lists.

An archetypal fighter has just about the same limited skills as a 3e one (one more from favored class if he gives up a combat bonus), while his skill monkey friends can become even more versatile in comparison.

 

[renau1g]

Which spells are you specifically referring to?

Divine Power - Best cleric spell for that purpose, and awesome even if you don't persist (though obviously better when persisted).
Divine Favor - Good low level spell for a big melee boost, and second cornerstone of the three core cleric melee buffs.
Righteous Might - Last of the three best core cleric melee spells. This one comes at 5th level so you'll have to wait a level, but it's quite good once you gain access.

 

[Voadam]

Divine Power - Best cleric spell for that purpose, and awesome even if you don't persist (though obviously better when persisted).
Divine Favor - Good low level spell for a big melee boost, and second cornerstone of the three core cleric melee buffs.
Righteous Might - Last of the three best core cleric melee spells. This one comes at 5th level so you'll have to wait a level, but it's quite good once you gain access.

Those were three I used in my melee clerics but I wanted to be sure before doing the comparisons, thanks Renau1g

Hmm.

Divine favor looks the same (3e was capped at +3 in errata after starting as going up to +5)

Divine power used to turn BAB into 1/1 give a +6 str, and some temp hp. Now it gives +1 to hit and damage per 3 levels (max +6), a haste style extra full base attack, and some temp hp. At 7th level 3e gave +4 to hit +3 damage versus PF +2 to hit and damage. At 20th 3e is +8 to hit, +3 to damage vs. +6 to hit and damage in PF.

Righteous might gave +4 str, +2 Con, +2 natural armor, 3/6/9 DR and size large. PF now gives RM +4 str, +4 Con, -2 Dex, +2 natural armor, 5/10 DR, and size large.

A little difference in these buff spells but not much.

 

[pawsplay]

Not nearly as much as I was hoping for.

Want to be a bad ass knight in 3.5? Spend your two skill points on riding and intimidate.

Want to be a bad ass knight in PF? Spend your two skill points on riding and intimidate.

Want to be an athletic fighter? Spend your two points on climb and swim, whether you are in Pathfinder or 3.5.

You can do much better at taking non class skills with your two points in PF, but the skill consolidation mostly happened on the high skill bard/ranger/rogue lists.

An archetypal fighter has just about the same limited skills as a 3e one (one more from favored class if he gives up a combat bonus), while his skill monkey friends can become even more versatile in comparison.

The greater number of feats, on top of the feats a fighter already gets, certainly invites you to spend one or two feats on skills if you want to be more skills-oriented.

 

[Kaisoku]

Even more than the increased number of base feats, is the Skill Focus feat granting +6 at 10 ranks, and those 10 ranks happening at the same level regardless of cross-class skill.

The Fighter is actually in a pretty good position (compared to the other full BAB classes) to pick up a skill focus feat or two.