Monks Broken or Not

[Sir Yvain]

I need help with a dilemma.

Half the people I talk to say that monks in 3.5 are broken

Half the people say it is extremely weak. They appear broken to me, but are they really?

I guess I am just looking for other opinions of the class.

 

[TroyXavier]

I love monks but they're weak. Nothing they can do that can't be accomplished better by another class.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Half the people I talk to say that monks in 3.5 are broken

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Oh, wait. Seriously?

Half the people say it is extremely weak. They appear broken to me, but are they really?

No, they are not. Play one and you'll find out why.

Don't get me wrong. I can have a very good time playing a monk. But broken? Please. They rank somewhere between bards and rogues in terms of power.

 

[Crothian]

This is like the discussion we used to have in 01. Monks look good on paper and they have a lot of cool abilities that make them fun. But out in the real world many of those cool powers just are not that great or useful and they just don't have what it takes.

 

[Deset Gled]

Half the people I talk to say that monks in 3.5 are broken

Half the people say it is extremely weak. They appear broken to me, but are they really?

Monks are one of my favorite classes in 3.x, but they are overall much weaker than most other classes. What makes a monk appear broken to you? Have you ever actually seen one in play?

Many of the monk's abilities, such as their various immunities, look very powerful on paper but rarely come up in actual game play. The monk's unarmed damage at high levels looks nice at first, but doesn't make up for the higher BAB and bonuses from magical weapons that an equivalent level fighter or barbarian would have.

 

[Dandu]

Don't get me wrong. I can have a very good time playing a monk. But broken? Please. They rank somewhere between bards and rogues in terms of power.

In core? Monks are weaker than those two. Out of core? Monks are still weaker than them.

 

[radmod]

Broken, no (except maybe a low magic world with a Vow of Poverty). I'd like to think they aren't particularly weak, but they can be.
Take, for example, AC. On paper it looks good, but when you compare it to what armored characters can get, they come up short.

That said, if you can do it and you want to go a non-armored route, adding a single level of Monk can be a decent boost to a character (great saves for 1 level + insight AC and the +4 from Imp. Grapple can help).

 

[Starbuck_II]

I need help with a dilemma.

Half the people I talk to say that monks in 3.5 are broken

Half the people say it is extremely weak. They appear broken to me, but are they really?

I guess I am just looking for other opinions of the class.

Trouble is Monk abilities do'nt synergize.

Now, look at the Barbarian:
Fast movement, Rage, Uncany Dodge, DR
They can all work together (Rage lowers AC but this is okay due to damage reduction). Fast movement helps him get to the enemy to attack (with Str boost from Rage).

Druid: Spells augment his fighting ability/Wild Shape. Or he can be summoner since he can spontaneously summon.

See it isn't just abilities but the synergy between them.


Monks get speed boost but they are forced not to move if they want to flurry. They can fall without damage but only if near a wall (they limitation makes ability mostly useless except for pit traps).
They get Improved unarm damage, but can't enhance it without speeding 3x price (getting +1 hit/dam is important). Sure, they get huge base damage, but it isn't base that matters but total bonus.
They get Wisdom to AC, but armor usually provides more.

They are also MAD (multiple ability Dependency):
Str = Damage/hit/grapple
Dex = AC/Init/Reflex (also hit if Weapon Finesse)
Con= hp, Fort checks
Int (skills, but not needed)
Wis = AC/Stunning Fist/will save
Cha = not needed.

So minimum 4 abiliies needed (Str, Dex, Con, Wis).
Even if dump Str and take Weapon Finesse that lowers damage (no other source to augment Unarmed damage).

1d20+1 is less than 2d6 +7 on average (by level 20, every Str based warrior should be having minimum 24 Str since magic items are assumed).

You could not boost Con (but then Hp suck).

 

[Dandu]

Cha = not needed.

But what about UMD, the most important monk skill of all time?

Broken, no (except maybe a low magic world with a Vow of Poverty).

Eh. Sorcerer.

 

[rusty2667]

They are also MAD (multiple ability Dependency):
Str = Damage/hit/grapple
Dex = AC/Init/Reflex (also hit if Weapon Finesse)
Con= hp, Fort checksInt (skills, but not needed)
Wis = AC/Stunning Fist/will save
Cha = not needed.

But what about UMD, the most important monk skill of all time?

This is what turns me off whenever I consider playing Monk. If there was a way to narrow the scope of pertinent class ability scores while keeping the class powers intact, I'd give the monk a shot.