Before I take issue with you for this I'll ask if your intent was to make it seem like Essentials = 4.5 is a statement of fact by your last sentence. You're right that it was a mistake to say they wouldn't make 4.5, but what we're getting has nothing to do with that. We'd get "the sky is falling" crowd claiming that it's raining sheep at the most ridiculous things no matter what WotC says.
Essentials - calling a spade a spade
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
Before I take issue with you for this I'll ask if your intent was to make it seem like Essentials = 4.5 is a statement of fact by your last sentence. You're right that it was a mistake to say they wouldn't make 4.5, but what we're getting has nothing to do with that. We'd get "the sky is falling" crowd claiming that it's raining sheep at the most ridiculous things no matter what WotC says.
MarkB
Legend
I agree, it was an awfully clumsy title back at the time. The funny thing is, with the way WotC have produced 4e, "4.5e" would actually be an appropriate term.
I haven't bought a single rule-book since the first Adventurers' Vault, but I subscribe to DDI and keep abreast of the rules updates via the website and forums. I play D&D almost entirely from the information in the Character Builder and Compendium, so to me the Essentials line will simply slot in alongside the existing tools I use, just like a software patch.
So out of utter bloody curiosity, do you consider the PHB2 from 3e to be 3.75?
In it we get some variant rules, including level retraining and new support for old classes. Just like Essentials.
Do you consider Unearthed Arcana 3.8? It includes variant builds for old classes. Like Essentials (And Martial Power, and Arcane Power And Primal ect.).
Did you considered the errata to the skill challenge chart which came out within the first month of 4e 4.5? Because its being changed again in the Essentials, and is by far the most devastatingly shocking rules change made to the game. Does that make Essentials 4.75? Also, they changed the way powers were read in PHB2. Does that make Essentials 4.8? What happens two minor rules changes later? Will people be shrieking of 5th Edition?
Essentials does not in any way replace your old books. I don't know how bloody often that has to be goddamn said for people to get it. It's not 4.5 in the sense that 3.5 was 3.5. 3.5 was, as said again and again and again and again was a replacement. Essentials is... nothing. Its extra books. That's it. Same as Martial Power. Same as PHB2. The reasons people have used to rationalize this constant slur against WotC (New class builds, rules updates) are pathetic.
You are not calling a spade a spade, your calling a spade a Toyota car.
In it we get some variant rules, including level retraining and new support for old classes. Just like Essentials.
Do you consider Unearthed Arcana 3.8? It includes variant builds for old classes. Like Essentials (And Martial Power, and Arcane Power And Primal ect.).
Did you considered the errata to the skill challenge chart which came out within the first month of 4e 4.5? Because its being changed again in the Essentials, and is by far the most devastatingly shocking rules change made to the game. Does that make Essentials 4.75? Also, they changed the way powers were read in PHB2. Does that make Essentials 4.8? What happens two minor rules changes later? Will people be shrieking of 5th Edition?
Essentials does not in any way replace your old books. I don't know how bloody often that has to be goddamn said for people to get it. It's not 4.5 in the sense that 3.5 was 3.5. 3.5 was, as said again and again and again and again was a replacement. Essentials is... nothing. Its extra books. That's it. Same as Martial Power. Same as PHB2. The reasons people have used to rationalize this constant slur against WotC (New class builds, rules updates) are pathetic.
You are not calling a spade a spade, your calling a spade a Toyota car.
You can say a lot about WotC, but you really have to admit they're clever and listen to customer feedback.
Initially, I thought, I could safely ignore the Essentials products since they were aimed at beginners.
I'm slowly coming around, though, because they added just that little bit of something to also appeal to 4e players who have already bought all the books.
WotC know full well that to carry the line and make a profit they need to sell the products to more than just new players.
The price point is also well chosen, since it makes it rather painless to buy them slowly, one at a time along with any other orders you happen to make. This already worked out well with their new adventure modules and locales.
I think it's easy to ignore the new class builds (though it doesn't hurt if you _don't_ ignore them). I'm less sure about the somewhat sweeping changes that have been previewed regarding items and feats.
What will probably happen is that I can tune them out for a while but will eventually, grudgingly introduce them in my game.
I will immediately embrace Essentials and use them as a default if they are translated into German, though. Not so much for my own sake, but for my players'.
Initially, I thought, I could safely ignore the Essentials products since they were aimed at beginners.
I'm slowly coming around, though, because they added just that little bit of something to also appeal to 4e players who have already bought all the books.
WotC know full well that to carry the line and make a profit they need to sell the products to more than just new players.
The price point is also well chosen, since it makes it rather painless to buy them slowly, one at a time along with any other orders you happen to make. This already worked out well with their new adventure modules and locales.
I think it's easy to ignore the new class builds (though it doesn't hurt if you _don't_ ignore them). I'm less sure about the somewhat sweeping changes that have been previewed regarding items and feats.
What will probably happen is that I can tune them out for a while but will eventually, grudgingly introduce them in my game.
I will immediately embrace Essentials and use them as a default if they are translated into German, though. Not so much for my own sake, but for my players'.
Colmarr
First Post
RigaMortus2
First Post
No, but you can in 4.6. Its a Gnome Theme Background Optional Talent Feat.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
In terms of WoTC said there would be no 4.5, how exactly did that happen? Did the corporation merge all of its employees into one body, or did one speaker, who may not even be with the company, say that?
Charwoman Gene
Adventurer
The argument about Essentials being 4.5e is only important to two groups of people who need to either prove or disprove that "WotC are liars." The beauty is that no evidence seems to budge either group at all.
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To quote from your article:
"this is the time that the game changed!".
I only have one question. Where were you a year ago when all your criteria were already met for a "new edition"? Most of what you claim constitutes 4.5 has been in the errata for over a year. When they added psionics they changed how at-will/encounter power progression worked and that was a major change. Lots of powers (other than MM) have had massive errata almost completely changing the way they work. I'm not sure what you meant by "Additional class features after 1st level" so you'll have to clear that up, but if it's what I think it is that's just new options in the existing framework.
The biggest single changes are arguably stealth, Wizard encounter power changes, and skill challenge DCs, but we've had 2 of those 3 for quite some time now.
I still stand by my position. If you say Essentials is 4.5 then where were you BEFORE Essentials was announced saying 4.1 or 4.2?
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