D&D General Perception vs Investigation

[James Gasik]

The way I think it should work is demonstrated in this quote from A Scandal in Bohemia.

“You see, but you do not observe.”​

Perception lets you notice things in your environment, but Investigation is what allows you to draw conclusions from what you're seeing. A high-Perception character may indeed see that there are two torch sconces on the wall flanking a seemingly empty alcove, and that one looks cleaner than the other.

The high-Investigation character, if their attention is drawn to this detail, may surmise that the cleaner torch is actually a switch and that there is a secret or concealed door present.

 

[aco175]

The way I think it should work is demonstrated in this quote from A Scandal in Bohemia.

“You see, but you do not observe.”​

Perception lets you notice things in your environment, but Investigation is what allows you to draw conclusions from what you're seeing. A high-Perception character may indeed see that there are two torch sconces on the wall flanking a seemingly empty alcove, and that one looks cleaner than the other.

The high-Investigation character, if their attention is drawn to this detail, may surmise that the cleaner torch is actually a switch and that there is a secret or concealed door present.

The character who might not draw attention to the cleaner looking torch sconce and be all "I saw that but I did not think it was a big deal", but the player knows that they need to push it, pull it, turn it, whatever to find something like a secret door. Would the character know or do you make them roll an Investigation check when the player already knows.

This is kind of why I use both depending on what it is being looked for.

 

[James Gasik]

The character who might not draw attention to the cleaner looking torch sconce and be all "I saw that but I did not think it was a big deal", but the player knows that they need to push it, pull it, turn it, whatever to find something like a secret door. Would the character know or do you make them roll an Investigation check when the player already knows.

This is kind of why I use both depending on what it is being looked for.

Yeah, it's one of the issues I have with mental ability scores in general. At what point do you draw the line from what the numbers seem to be implying and the player's own abilities? I used to have a guy in my group who was very good at solving puzzles, and any time an adventure included one, it was rare that he didn't instantly clue in on the answer.

Given that many puzzles and riddles are intended to test the player (and many DM's take a dim view of "rolling" to solve such), it's hard to say "hang on, would your character be able to solve things that quickly?", especially since "Intelligence 13" doesn't really mean anything beyond "+1 on Int based rolls".

I mean, how could anyone say "well, Int 13 isn't enough to solve this puzzle but Int 15 is" without having to admit that they're being completely arbitrary about it? DM's don't want you playing your character as being smarter than their ability scores would imply, but are equally loathe to give players a free pass when playing characters smarter or wiser than they are, a sort of "ability score paradox".

 

[Charlaquin]

If you're right, the dudes (and dudets) can't even name their terminology properly. Perhaps, the WotC posse needs to buy a thesaurus.

(Or have have supined themselves before lord Hasbro. How sweetly they kiss his plastic Marvel action figures! Guess that's why they make the big bucks.)*

Maybe...I'm also a fool, so don't listen to me.

*Other hypothesis may also apply. (Oh, the things we do for miniature green portraits for Andrew Jacksons! Numbers must rise.)

Well, they didn’t name it, TSR did.