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So, Dark Sun: It's officially out. What do you think of it?

It's exactly everything I was hoping for. Especially the creature book, which is excellently designed and one of the best monster books I own. The new mechanics, the decision to stick it to certain canon and other decisions they've made were excellent. This is probably the best of the three settings published for 4E by quite a distance.

I don't know about BEST...Eberron is pretty freaking great. It's just not the new hotness anymore. :lol:

But yeah, the Creature Catalog is great (I LOVE the idea of putting in hazards, traps and exotic terrain in that book...they should do that for the Monster Vaults from now on).

Themes are the best new mechanic to be introduced to 4e by far though. I want them for Eberron, like, yesterday. :p
 

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Herschel

Adventurer
Loving it so far. My Tuesday Night group (by request) just started hashing out ideas and characters to re-start our campaign in the setting next week. Our paragon characters in the main campaign are now on reserve for those very rare weekend games.
 

M.L. Martin

Adventurer
10) Kalidnay. Not sure whether I think it's suddenly gone up about ten points on the awesome scale, or dropped ten points on the awesome scale. Really have to think on that one.

I'm not a Dark Sun fan, but Kalidnay has connections to Ravenloft, which I am a die-hard fan of. What have they done with it?
 

Nork

First Post
Overall I think it is an OK book for a great setting.

I'd say that it is worth buying, but I wouldn't use it as an example of how a campaign book should be.

1) It was too short. Honestly, deep down, I'm seriously unhappy that the Eberron Campaign Guide got 63 more pages. This isn't purely a "but they got more" reaction (although a small part of it is), but that the book on its own merits was too short... by about 60 pages. Especially since it was a player's guide + campaign guide combo sharing its page space. If they had added 60 pages, every city could have had an entry as long as Tyr's entry, and still had 35 pages left over. It didn't feel satisfying, and was a HUGE knock against the book in my opinion. HUGE. Bad enough that if Wizards does it again, I'll badmouth their campaign settings as being "too short" in general conversation about the D&D line. They very seriously crossed a line with the page count and content.

Rolling the Campaign Guide and Player's Guide into one book was fine. Adding the page count of a Campaign Guide and a Player's Guide together and dividing by two was an awful formula to arrive at a page count.

Honestly, if I even suspect that they were holding out text content to use for DDI articles, I'm going to seriously unhappy with the company.

2) Honestly, deep down, I'm not happy that DDI articles are showing up with what are some really nice pieces of art that I think are clearly better than some of the art pieces that did make it into the book. It also makes me feel like they short changed me on purpose.

3) The Dray work pretty well, I'd even consider playing one. This is in the context me of having a huge dislike for Dragonborn.

The Eladrin are fine, and they fit into the setting well as presented.

The Tiefling seem like a ham-fisted shoe-horning that needed more work, especially since divine/infernal beings inherently beg questions that does the setting no favors.

I totally support the use of Goliath mechanics since large creatures are a menace, but frankly, they did more than use Goliath mechanics, they completely replaced half-giants with Goliaths, right down to the artwork. It wasn't a re-skinning, because, they literally did not re-skin them.

I also think they cut too far and too lazily on Thri-Kreens. Their "the greatest enemy of a centaur is a ladder, so we made them humans in bug suits" argument holds no water with me. Thri-kreen worked in the original setting, and frankly, I don't think anyone has difficulty imagining a slightly downsized thri-kreen getting up a ladder, or into whatever spaces that a traditional adventure would take players.

4) All the rules were fine. The defiling, the wild talents, the breakable weapons, the alternate advancement, the "gp worth of favors" system, all looks like it will work well enough.

The "gold is the standard outside the cities" is pretty lame though. They should have said "barter" is the standard outside the cities. Especially when they go and have a section on Walis and mention how little gold actually gets mined there.

5) I think themes are a really good thing. Too many players need some sort of "permission by rules" to add 'character' to their characters, and one of the major complaints that I've seen leveled against D&D is that characters are just a "race and class combo". The major validity of that complaint rests on can vs will. People can make their characters interesting, but too often they will just roll a halfing rogue with no background and call it a character. I think having people selecting a race, class, theme combo will help address those complaints, as a halfling rogue pirate or a halfling rogue merchant is more palatable.

6) I really REALLY liked that each city got a map. Best part of the book. That being said, the Tyr map was a let down. It is all sorts of out of proportion compared to the other city maps. Which is exceptionally disappointing for the city that most adventures will be happening it.

7) The map of the Tyr Region on the other hand is excellent. The addition of a lot more features and points of interest really makes it a better tool and prop.
 


Dice4Hire

First Post
I am very satisfied with the CS, though Amazon has not been kind enough to send me the adventure or the creature book yet.

Overall, I think there was the right amount of both crunch and fluff, and they really made the cosmology fit well with 4E, and it makes mroe sense than it did in 2E, where it seemed very contrived.

Also, good job fitting in as many races as possible, and giving sidebars for a player who MUST play a gnome or whatnot.

As for more history, yes, it would have been nice, but there is enough there to run games, and I'm sure DDI will fill in the gaps for most 4E players.

But then again, I knew the 2E setting pretty well, so I have most of the background.

I am very happy with where they set the timeline also. Just after Tyr is freed is the best time.

The only thing I would have preferred to see was a bit more on the wastes. The focus is on the cities, which is fine, but the wastes could have used a bit more fleshing out.

Still It is an A job.
 



AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps
I totally support the use of Goliath mechanics since large creatures are a menace, but frankly, they did more than use Goliath mechanics, they completely replaced half-giants with Goliaths, right down to the artwork. It wasn't a re-skinning, because, they literally did not re-skin them.
I completely did not think they would use Goliath art for half-giants. Really baffled me. Makes me think they believe Dark Sun customers would be too stupid to figure out what they did with regard to goliath mechanics with half-giant art.
 

Shroomy

Adventurer
I'm not a Dark Sun fan, but Kalidnay has connections to Ravenloft, which I am a die-hard fan of. What have they done with it?

Its only a couple of paragraphs, but it keeps the gist of the original story (the details are purposefully left vague). Kalidnay is now a shadowy, undead infested ruin, but a version of the city exists in the Gray (the Shadowfell), so its presumably a Domain of Dread and the Mists still draw travelers into it. The biggest change seems to be that Kalid-Ma and Thanok-An were married and the section offers a couple of possibilities as to why the city was drawn into the Gray, which I guess deviates from the official 2e DS/RL setting canon.
 

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