APG - Hero Points

[IronWolf]

What do people think of the Hero Points system from the APG? I was hoping to use Hero/Action points in an upcoming Kingmaker campaign and I will be using the optional rules from the APG. It looks like a decent system to me and appears to be able to provide the niche I was looking to fill.

Has anyone already added the APG rules for Hero Points in their game? What do you think? Or maybe you haven't started using this system yet but prefer another - I would be interested in those thoughts as well.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I just inserted them into the Legacy of Fire game I'm running online, and went ahead and gave out the maximum (3) to each party member. Just in the nick of time . . .

The APL is 3, and they're up against a CR5 were-leopard. One player used his to perform a very nice acrobatic trick to get into flanking position, another used his for the +4 bonus after the roll to get a solid hit. The fight's far from over, but it's got the potential to be quite deadly, and it seems like the use of the Hero Points could tip the scales.

I'm still trying to get a feel for the 'power level' when they're used in the more subjective ways (such as the acrobatic trick). I'm also leaning toward making them more special by either not using the feats associated with them, or using only the 'Luck of Heroes' feat (and waiving the Hero's Fortune requirement). If I do this I'll also likely be a bit more generous regarding the more subjective uses.

 

[Jor-El]

I love it. I used Action Points in my last campaign, but I used them pretty much exactly like the Hero Points (which of course, comes largely from Unearthed Arcana).

My only issue was in trying to figure out how many to award, and what limit to place on them. Early in the campaign I didn't limit how many a character could attain...so naturally, everyone hoarded them. Eventually I had to put a limit on them, but it was hard trying to find the right spot to cut them off. When they had too many, there was far less of a threat from tough encounters. They could make several saving throws in a row using the Action points, and still have plenty left over....

So, I really like the limit of 3 from the APG. Gaining 1 per level and getting extra for "above and beyond" actions and role-playing works for me, and keeps them to a minimal level. That way they won't be abused, and will still be meaningful.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Forgot to mention that the player who used his for the acrobatic trick was reluctant to use it for a re-roll as it 'felt like cheating' to him. He may or may not continue this line of thinking .

Another has stated that he'll always try to keep two points in reserve for the 'Cheat Death' function, effectively leaving him with one HP at the most for 'free use.' I heartily approve of this strategy.

 

[Jor-El]

I just inserted them into the Legacy of Fire game I'm running online, and went ahead and gave out the maximum (3) to each party member. Just in the nick of time . . .

The APL is 3, and they're up against a CR5 were-leopard. One player used his to perform a very nice acrobatic trick to get into flanking position, another used his for the +4 bonus after the roll to get a solid hit. The fight's far from over, but it's got the potential to be quite deadly, and it seems like the use of the Hero Points could tip the scales.

I'm still trying to get a feel for the 'power level' when they're used in the more subjective ways (such as the acrobatic trick). I'm also leaning toward making them more special by either not using the feats associated with them, or using only the 'Luck of Heroes' feat (and waiving the Hero's Fortune requirement). If I do this I'll also likely be a bit more generous regarding the more subjective uses.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'm not going to allow the feats, spells, and magic items that go along with.

 

[Dal Thrax]

I'm considering using the action point system from Eberron instead. It seems better thought out.

 

[Crothian]

Persoanlly, I'm liking the action point system from APG it seems like it is more effective then the old d20 version. The one change I would make though is giving Paladins bonus action points or the action poit feats for free like one at ever even level.

 

[IronWolf]

The APL is 3, and they're up against a CR5 were-leopard. One player used his to perform a very nice acrobatic trick to get into flanking position, another used his for the +4 bonus after the roll to get a solid hit. The fight's far from over, but it's got the potential to be quite deadly, and it seems like the use of the Hero Points could tip the scales.

Excellent! This is the type of things I am hoping the Hero Points will give the PCs a last ditch effort to turn things around for themselves without needing to intervene as a DM.

So, I really like the limit of 3 from the APG. Gaining 1 per level and getting extra for "above and beyond" actions and role-playing works for me, and keeps them to a minimal level. That way they won't be abused, and will still be meaningful.

I agree here as well. I think the hard limit of three stands the best shot to avoid hoarding without the need to give a ton of them away necessarily. Though as Mowgli mentions I can see a player at least sitting on 2 of them for the cheat death option.

I'm also leaning toward making them more special by either not using the feats associated with them, or using only the 'Luck of Heroes' feat (and waiving the Hero's Fortune requirement). If I do this I'll also likely be a bit more generous regarding the more subjective uses.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'm not going to allow the feats, spells, and magic items that go along with.

Ah - so I'm not the only one who thought the feat, spells and magic items that related to Hero Points might be over the top. I don't think the feats rub me the wrong way as much as the spells or magic items, but I did question the inclusion of these initially. Despite that I am going to roll forward using the RAW in the APG and see how it plays out before I tweak anything here.

I'm considering using the action point system from Eberron instead. It seems better thought out.

What do you feel is better thought out with the Eberron model? I thought the Hero Point rules as described in the APG seemed pretty well covered and looks to suit my desire to include a hero/action point system in the upcoming campaign.

 

[IronWolf]

Persoanlly, I'm liking the action point system from APG it seems like it is more effective then the old d20 version. The one change I would make though is giving Paladins bonus action points or the action poit feats for free like one at ever even level.

I'm surprised you didn't tie Extra Smite in with your action point mod for the Paladin!

 

[Crothian]

I'm surprised you didn't tie Extra Smite in with your action point mod for the Paladin!

That would just be ridiculous, everything I suggest is perfectly reasonable.