Crossing an event horizon

So, the person falling is at the event horizon, and the skimmer is above it. This is now no different from the case where one person is in a ship high above, and watching the other fall in. It doesn't matter how far above the observer is - if the observer isn't also falling in, the same clock-slowing will occur.

So Luckless won't actually fall in then, until the end of time? For Luckless, it's just a minute or so, however for visitors nearby, another person can flyby and see him sitting just above the event horizon, and a billion years later, yet another (somewhat evolved hopefully) person can flyby and also see Luckless still easing on into ...that black hole.

And we are not doing SETI searches around Black holes, why? exactly?....

Also... if we are really on our way to the beginning of time instead of the end of time (As people commonly believe), it would mean Luckless is on his way to the beginnings of creation, yes?
 
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So Luckless won't actually fall in then, until the end of time? For Luckless, it's just a minute or so, however for visitors nearby, another person can flyby and see him sitting just above the event horizon, and a billion years later, yet another (somewhat evolved hopefully) person can flyby and also see Luckless still easing on into ...that black hole.
If we are still assuming indestructible immortals, perhaps. As for the end of time, well, are you talking multiverse theory or just the time in this universe? That stuff is so complicated my head hurts just reading summaries of theories. And then someone throws quantum universes into the mix and my brain starts to bleed.

And we are not doing SETI searches around Black holes, why? exactly?....
Well, you know how fashion from a couple of decades ago gets a lot of flak from people? Can you just imagine how bad the fashion must have been a million years ago? It's just dreadful. All those neon leggings and shoulder length mullets. :)


Here's an x-ray image of Cygnus X-1, a most famous black hole:
cygnusX-1_xray.jpg

How much do you see? And the bright white thing? That's not it. That's the star it orbits.

Here's a better image:
cygX1-image.jpg

Can you see it now?

Let's zoom in:
cygX1-image-close.jpg

Notice what the problem is? :)

Also... if we are really on our way to the beginning of time instead of the end of time (As people commonly believe), it would mean Luckless is on his way to the beginnings of creation, yes?
I have no idea what that means, or why you would say it's commonly believed.
 

Does all this mean that nothing ever actually has fallen into a black hole? No matter how much stuff a black hole has sucked towards it, none of it has yet crossed the (any) event horizon?

Bullgrit
 

Does all this mean that nothing ever actually has fallen into a black hole? No matter how much stuff a black hole has sucked towards it, none of it has yet crossed the (any) event horizon?
Nope. But it does mean that there's a lot of stuff near the horizon which has been in a state of "falling" for longer than humans have existed. As an example.
 


So Luckless won't actually fall in then, until the end of time? For Luckless, it's just a minute or so, however for visitors nearby, another person can flyby and see him sitting just above the event horizon, and a billion years later, yet another (somewhat evolved hopefully) person can flyby and also see Luckless still easing on into ...that black hole.

Sort of. As Luckless falls down the hole, light gets further and further shifted to the red end of the spectrum - down past red, infrared, microwave, radio, and further. Eventually (actually, pretty quickly by our standards) it'll be shifted down to the point where we cannot detect it.

And we are not doing SETI searches around Black holes, why? exactly?....

Aside from jonsey's excellent demonstration you mean?

We can add to jonesy, by the way, by noting that small black holes have nasty tidal forces near their event horizons - the fact that your clock ticks slowly is not a comfort as you are turned into spaghetti. Really big black holes don't have that problem, but they are generally found in the center of galaxies - very busy places, even harder to find small things in them.

If some critter wants to see the end of the Universe, it might crawl down into the gravity well of a black hole to wait it out, sure. But in order to get a message out as, say, a radio wave, it would have to emit it as gamma rays or other high-energy electromagnetic radiation.

And the clock differential presents a data transfer rate problem. Their time is very slow compared to ours. What seems like a screaming high rate of data transmission looks like a crawl to us. If your entire life goes by in what they see as a fraction of a second, you aren't going to get much data from them.

Also... if we are really on our way to the beginning of time instead of the end of time (As people commonly believe), it would mean Luckless is on his way to the beginnings of creation, yes?

Being on our way to the beginning of time isn't one of the common theories.

Does all this mean that nothing ever actually has fallen into a black hole? No matter how much stuff a black hole has sucked towards it, none of it has yet crossed the (any) event horizon?

There are some unanswered questions of quantum effects - in a classical view, we out here would say they never reach the event horizon, Zeno's paradox style. However, quantum mechanics may provide a way for them to finally pop over the edge when we aren't looking.
 

OK, wait a minute. Am I not understanding "infinite" correctly?
Depends on what you're applying it to. And how long it actually takes. And whether all of the matter that the star had would instantly become consumed by the event horizon. And how long it would take for, say, a companion star or planet to get sucked in. And I think Umbran understands that part much better than I do.

The math, it burns. It burns. :)
 

So it takes an infinite amount of time, assuming a sufficiently small quantity of infinity? :-)

"To Infinity, and beyond!"
-- Buzz Lightyear

Bullgrit
 



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