Good Way to Handle Child Prodigies?

[HoboGod]

Olympic gymnasts? Constant training and exercise isn't a lifestyle?

All Olympic gymnasts must have that lifestyle, regardless of age. If constant training and exercise is the only factor to gymnastics, then an 18-25 year old would have the advantage over those younger than 18. That's my point here.

As for the strength difference, I tend to think that the size penalty presented creates that inequity.

Ultimately, however, I'm less concerned with the reality of children as I am about giving my players a variant, balanced against adults and middle-aged adventurers, which can represents childhood.

 

[ValhallaGH]

All Olympic gymnasts must have that lifestyle, regardless of age. If constant training and exercise is the only factor to gymnastics, then an 18-25 year old would have the advantage over those younger than 18. That's my point here.

There's also the skeletal issues. During puberty, the human skeleton becomes increasingly rigid as cartilage is replaced by bone and the bones themselves fuse together. 14 is about the minimum time needed to acquire the necessary skills and experience to achieve Olympic skill and 16 is about the upper age limit that the human body can flex those ways without serious injury.
And that's just one example of how the biology of aging affects performance. Children recover quickly, but their endurance is limited to bursts (you'll note that children don't do marathons), whereas similarly-active adults have much greater endurance but aren't quite as fast to recover.
(d20 mechanics for this can simply be that children have very few hp, so one night of rest allows them to recover a relatively large amount of their hp. This may be unsatisfactory for adventurers, however, so doubling their healing rate to 2 hp per level per night's rest may be a satisfactory solution.)

Ultimately, however, I'm less concerned with the reality of children as I am about giving my players a variant, balanced against adults and middle-aged adventurers, which can represents childhood.

Talk to your players, and see what expectations they have for the game mechanics of children. A big part of any successful game mechanic is player enthusiasm and expectation. Once you know what your players are expecting, and what they are excited about, you can ensure that you give them something that they'll enjoy whether or not they expect it.
And remember, ability scores are the king of the game. Don't penalize them too much or the character's won't be capable enough to be fun.

Good luck.

 

[HoboGod]

Talk to your players, and see what expectations they have for the game mechanics of children. A big part of any successful game mechanic is player enthusiasm and expectation. Once you know what your players are expecting, and what they are excited about, you can ensure that you give them something that they'll enjoy whether or not they expect it.

That's part of my problem, really. Half of my players either don't have the know-how to make their characters on their own or to pick things that have good game mechanics. My players love killing things, but don't always optimize their characters for destruction. They pick things that aesthetically appealing and go with it. They have enough grasp of the game to know that there should be some difference between option A and option B, but tend to just roll with the changes regardless of what they are. If I let them suggest the differences between child and adult, I fear they wont make contemplative decisions.

 

[ValhallaGH]

That's part of my problem, really. Half of my players either don't have the know-how to make their characters on their own or to pick things that have good game mechanics. My players love killing things, but don't always optimize their characters for destruction. They pick things that aesthetically appealing and go with it. They have enough grasp of the game to know that there should be some difference between option A and option B, but tend to just roll with the changes regardless of what they are. If I let them suggest the differences between child and adult, I fear they wont make contemplative decisions.

That is an issue.
Still, just because they suggest something doesn't mean you have to use it.

If they like killing stuff and are bad at character optimization then don't make the template very troubling. -1 to three abilities, +1 to three abilities, 3/4 carrying capacity, and is obviously a child. Something simple that doesn't have much mechanical effect on the character, but a huge impact on the role play.
(I'd enhance Charisma, Dexterity, and Wisdom, and penalize Constitution, Intelligence and Strength, but do what feels best for your group.)

Best of luck.

 

[Takhisis]

The idea of child adventurers sounds interesting, reminds me of all the awesome videogames and cartoons that I grew up with back in the 90s-early 2000s....but anyway, as for how to do it mechanicaly, stat penelties really depend on how realistic you want to be. If you want realism, then I agree fully with the +2Dex, +2 Cha, +2 Wis and -2 Con, -2 Int and -2 Str....I know the wis thing may seem odd to some people, but I have my reasons mainly relating to spiritual and "new age" concepts, as well a child's unique worldview, but I will not go into those because this is not a forum on which to discuss such matters.

Anyway, if you don't care much about realism, though, you have several options, depending on character ages. If they want to play teenage/close to teenage characters, I say just use their standard races with medium size and say that their characters are teens/preteens in-game. If you do things this way you don't have to worry about all kinds of crazy modifiers and if you need justification for a preteen/teen to have a very high strength just look at any shonen manga/anime. If you need a justification for say, a very high int look at Code Geass or any other anime that feature teenage/preteen geniuses. However, if your players want to play younger kids(age 10 or lower), then you have issues. I would say at that point, you would need small size and thus some kind of modifiers or some other way to balance things out.(Perhaps changing the crunch for small size to make it less powerful?)

 

[Thanael]

Pathfinder has a Young Creature Template: Pathfinder Mobile SRD | Young Creature

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Good Way to Handle Child Prodigies?

With kid gloves, of course!

But seriously, how you make child PCs depends upon the exact game system you're using and the general attributes of the kid PC in question.

When I was 13, one of my classmates, Rex Bergsten, was damn near 6' tall. In comparison, I was reading beyond the college level...and had been for years. He was well above average physically, I was ahead mentally. And neither of us was as far outside the norms as could be. At 13, Robert Wadlow was 7'4", and Micheal Kearney was working on his Masters degree in Biochemistry.

So I wouldn't make a blanket set of rules for all children when making child prodigies at all because prodigies are capable of achievements far beyond what you'd expect given their technical age.

Instead, I'd either

1) Start with the normal basis for the character's race, then customize each PC to model what that prodigy excels at doing. Now, to remain balanced, you'd have to figure out what stat mods or feats (or whatever mechanical bennie) you'd want to hand out for this, and if you plan on using a variety of options, you'll have to do a little evaluation of equivalencies between them.

OR

2) Simply use the normal PC gen system- possibly with letting them shift points around more freely than usual- and just call them kids.

 

[Jxuptosae]

Hi! I'm new to this site. I found this thread interesting and figured I would comment.

I do believe that stats should be largely dependent on the specialization that they desire, and you would need to balance their stats on an individual basis. That being said, I do think that a Dex bonus, and a max strength per level should be enacted, with a judgement call on your part as to the actual limit. This should make sure they function at a slightly lower level, and require them to think and plan more. Being a child is a liability, in general.

A template that could work is this:

HD: 1d6-2 Min 1 Max 5 (allow Barbarian 1d8-3 max 7)

Ability Modifiers:
Strength: Normal max 10 (for fighter youngsters 14) with 3/4 weight capacity.
Dexterity: +2
Constitution: +2 (note max health per HD, mostly for saves and to indicate healthier children)
Intelligence: Dependent on class.
Wisdom: Max 14
Charisma: Dependent on class.

I would ignore racial bonuses entirely. Let them choose a race, sure, but don't count the bonuses unless they wish to trade in for the standard adult of that race and take an adult age. Considering the adaptable model given I find this to be suitable.

Allow bonuses to be traded around. For instance, the wizard might want the Con and Cha bonus on Int instead, considering the focus for the prodigy I would agree. Use Wizard HD in that case.

Another option, is to allow a very limited point buy, say, perhaps 4 points total to spread while counting the bonuses listed (with all stats marked 10 to start), with no more than 2 of the four to be allowed in a single stat, and enforce max limitation. I would count them as medium creatures, unless they intend to be exceptionally young or relatively short for a human. (Consider that hundreds of years ago the average height was not the same as now, if you wish to consider the D&D world as in the past) Although, I would grant them the bonus to hide, a bonus to climb, and a bonus to AC but not to hit.

I know it seems like there are a lot of bonuses I am tossing out, but considering the limitations I find them to be pretty fair.

For over 14 I would use normal stats, considering that many differences wouldn't factor in well. I have met some exceptionally strong 14 year olds. Of course there are extremely flexible people in that age group, and very bright minds aren't really dictated by age. Anyone can be charismatic, and given circumstances some younger people can be fairly wise. More so than many adults given that these are prodigies we are talking about.

I do stick by enforcing max stats for children under 12 and a bumped limit to the middle years. As a 10 year old kid there are certain aspects of your physicality that only puberty will be able to change. Granted, they *may* be extreme outliers, like a 6' tall 10 year old, but I wouldn't enforce that.

I would suggest using a point buy system (if you don't want to use the suggestion listed above), but make it a little more limited. For instance, if you normally did the "Elite" point buy system, bump it down one. This is to make the limitations on scores less of a burden, and more just an aspect of a character.

I would also give extra skill points, considering how much easier it is for a child to learn than an adult, perhaps 2 extra per level, (no x4 at first) and drop the +2 to +1 when they add the total amount the x4 would have added. This will help counter-act the limitations set on some of their stats, and depict some growing up on their part. I know it is a pain to keep track of, so just as everything else suggested it is entirely optional. In all honesty, I am not sure that I would encourage fighter type classes, but would focus on the dexterity, mentally, or charisma based classes instead.

I would also (for under 12) make them buy the small variants for armor and weapons, perhaps aside from light weapons, daggers, short swords, and the like.

I might re-read this latter and think "What the heck was I thinking?!?", but I would like to think I did a decent enough job.