Druids and Wand of Enlarge Person

[Thalantor]

Hey All, I have a rules problem:

How can a lvl 7 druid use a wand of enlarge person on himself? Does his animal companion share that effect then? And if the enlarged druid then shapechanges, does he remain large?

Thanks in advance for help!

 

[Persiflage]

Hey All, I have a rules problem:

How can a lvl 7 druid use a wand of enlarge person on himself?

No, not unless he has somehow managed to get enlarge person on his class spell list or has ranks in the Use Magic Device skill.

Does his animal companion share that effect then?

Assuming he has found a way to use the wand in the first place, yes.

And if the enlarged druid then shapechanges, does he remain large?

If you're following the rules including the errata for Wild Shape then yes, he remains large; the errata'd Wild Shape doesn't change the Druid's type and he thus remains a valid target for enlarge person (assuming he was humanoid to begin with). If your group is still working on the basis that the Druid's type changes when he uses Wild Shape, then there's a good case for saying that the spell no longer has an effect, as only the "humanoid" type can be affected by it.

 

[akbearfoot]

Enlarge person could work on the druid if he could find a way to use the wand. Assuming your using the errata version. Enlarge person is way less abusive on your average druid then Animal Growth anyways, so no biggie.

However if cast from the wand, or a scroll, or ring, or any other magic item, the spell could not be 'shared' with the companion.


Share spells happens when 'you cast' spells, not when your magic items cast them.

 

[frankthedm]

Share spells happens when 'you cast' spells, not when your magic items cast them.

Says where? http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...7-share-spells-animal-companion-question.html

 

[jefgorbach]

If/when the DRUID is the target of a magical effect he has the option of sharing the effect with their animal companion, irregardless of the source for the simple reason he's sharing the magical effect that is affecting HIM with his animal companion via their magical link.

For example, Cure Light Wounds (Brd 1, Clr1, Drd1,Healig1, Pal1,Rgr2)
Druid casts Cure Light Wounds on himself. He can share it w/animal companion.
Druid casts CLW from a scroll. He can share it.
Druid casts CLW from a wand. He can share it.
Druid drinks a CLW potion. He receives the spell's effect so can share it.
Druid puts on a ring of CLW. He receives the spell's effect so can share it.
Druid steps on a boon-trapped rug of CLW. He receives the effect so can share it.
Cleric casts CLW on the Druid. Druid can share it bc he's the effect's target.

Although the Druid cant normally cast Enlarge Person himself, there's no reason an accompanying Mage couldn't cast it upon him ... and upon receiving the effect, share it with his animal companion as clearly stated in RAW. Accordingly, the end result is the same should he UMD(wand) to cast it on himself and share it, or even purchase/wear a ring of enlarging.

However your next concern is Enlarge Person has duration of 1 minute per caster's level (ie NOT instantaneous) so the animal companion immediately shrinks back to its normal size upon exceeding the Share Spells five foot limit unless you've taken one of the feats to extend that range.

(note: technically the cleric cant cast the spell on the druid per RAW since he's not initiating the effect himself, however it seems reasonable since its the effect on the druid being shared not the source so allowed IMC - thus a mage could Enlarge the druid, who could share it with his animal companion via their link).

 

[Uder]

Although the Druid cant normally cast Enlarge Person himself, there's no reason an accompanying Mage couldn't cast it upon him ... and upon receiving the effect, share it with his animal companion as clearly stated in RAW. Accordingly, the end result is the same should he UMD(wand) to cast it on himself and share it, or even purchase/wear a ring of enlarging.

This won't work (outside of your house rules). The druid must be the caster by RAW.

 

[jefgorbach]

This won't work (outside of your house rules). The druid must be the caster by RAW.

correct. I recalled that after posting and should have edited the part about the mage when noting my house-rule. sorry.

However the druid COULD do it if he can get the wand/etc to work.

 

[akbearfoot]

The way I read it, activating a scroll, drinking a potion, using a wand...those are all ways of creating magical effects that do not count as 'casting a spell on yourself'. Activating a magic item is an entirely different action than casting a spell. Magic items function under different rules, have their own caster levels, and even use their own ability score modifiers. Not to mention that the spells that actually create those magic items are ALREADY cast by someone else during the crafting process, which clearly isn't the druid casting it on his/herself. Being the controller of a magic effect does not necessarily make you the caster of said effect.

Druids are already too overpowered to let any magic effect they generate through any means also effect their companions.

Our whole group of 6 read it and think it works exactly the same way I do. And we don't usually agree on rules, lol. That is to say, there is certainly wiggle room for any other DM to interpret it that way.

 

[jefgorbach]

Except RAW states "Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell." thus its acceptable for the druid to use a scroll of Enlarge Person/whatever.

Likewise "All wands are simply storage devices for spells and thus have no special descriptions. Refer to the spell descriptions for all pertinent details." per RAW. Further, "Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken." So all the Druid needs to do in this case is either UseMagicDevice skill or ask a friendly wizard for the correct command word to effectively cast the spell himself.

Also "A potion is a magic liquid that produces its effect when imbibed. Magic oils are similar to potions, except that oils are applied externally rather than imbibed. ... The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect)." so again, potions are an acceptable means for the druid to effectively cast the spell effect upon himself per RAW.

So the question really comes down to whether an enchanted object such as a ring or amulet might work as well. Being the catch-all category, exact details vary by the item - however generally speaking each is either a use-action (like a potion) or Command Word activation (like a wand) which RAW has already confirmed ARE acceptable and effective means of casting a spell, thus SHOULD be acceptable use for the druid.

Its akin to Driving a power-wheelchair, motorcycle, car, or truck in the Modern world. The appearance and speed of each method of movement from point-A to point-B differs, but the underlying rules of the road (rules of magic) and driving (magic) skill involved in applying those rules remains the same.

Casting a spell from memory, drinking a potion of that spell, flourishing a wand of that spell, or wearing/using an object of that spell all APPEAR different on the surface but utilize the same underlying magical rules and thus are interchangeable as far as the druid is concerned regarding getting a specific effect upon himself and companion.

If the druid's ability to share spell effects are THAT overpowered then perhaps the solution is to house-rule they can't in your campaign rather than rework the entire magic system.

 

[IronWolf]

Except RAW states "Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell." thus its acceptable for the druid to use a scroll of Enlarge Person/whatever.

Check the Use Magic Device skill for some clarification on its use.

Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

The druid does not have Enlarge Person on their spell list so they would need UMD to use a scroll of Enlarge Person.

Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

So again, the druid does not have Enlarge Person on their spell list so they would need to use UMD to use a wand of Enlarge Person.