If players don't GM, can they complain?

[Rel]

Players (and GMs) playstyles are going to vary. That's just a fact. I'm a big believer in trying to find the "sweet spot" where you get maximum overlap between these varying tastes and conducting as much of the game activity within that sweet spot as possible.

Once I've made a clear effort to do that then constant complaints indicate to me that a given players tastes run so counter to the rest of the group that they are rarely going to have fun playing with that group. At that point I'd invite them to leave and find a game that will deliver the fun that I'm sure they desire.

 

[DragonLancer]

Point them to a table and say "drum up some interest and run your game of choice". If they won't or can't then you tell them to shut up and play or go stand in the corner. Simples.

 

[Oryan77]

Am I the only one that thinks players don't have the right to complain? If they complained, and then started their own game, they might realize they are better DMs than us. I like the attention I get as DM, I'm not ready to give that up!

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye. I have a very limited tolerance for trashtalk. Every year I have less respect for and interest in professional sports simply because of the relentlessly unprofessional attitudes and behaviors. There's lessons to be learned from that.

It's one thing for players to joke about others tastes in gaming, to express their opinions on what they genuinely do not like. It's another to hear it constantly, reliably, and when it serves no purpose other than to demonstrate how much of a fun-sponge you can be as a person. Talking trash almost inevitably seems to lead to bad blood - and there's just no reason anyone should let it get that far. When you hear a complaint n times where n is a very larger number hearing it n+1 times makes it no longer an opinion or good-natured ribbing - it's damned rude.

If this is happening on your club website then put up a post telling people to shut the hell up for a while and gain a little freakin' perspective and PROPER attitude. If it's happening around the room then just have the club president make a formal announcement - or make it yourself:

"Attitudes in the club are becoming problematic - for me, even if not for anyone else. Let's have less attitude and a hell of a LOT MORE respect for other players and their gaming preferences before it gets further out of hand. That is all."

 

[S'mon]

They're free to complain, just as I'm free to eject complainers from my table. >

 

[DEFCON 1]

It sounds as though, Clip, your problem is not so much that these few people are complaining... but that they are complaining about the same exact things over and over and over again.

And for that, I am right there with you. I have no problems discussing or listening to talk about all manner of subjects... but when it's the same exact subject being brought up again, and again, and again... I want to tell them to STFU as well.

Now they absolutely have a right to complain about stuff... but you also absolutely have the right to tell them that you've heard their same exact bitching and moaning non-stop for months on end, and that they should just get over it already. Bring something new to the table. Something that doesn't want to make the rest of you stab yourselves in the eye.

Heck, I do the same thing here on ENWorld any time the golden chestnuts of 4E flamebait get brought up in a new thread. Anyone want to start an all-new "weapon expertise is a 'feat tax'!" discussion again?

And yes, I was just kidding right then. PLEASE don't start another "weapon expertise is a 'feat tax'! thread. We have so many new things to complain about now, let's not go back. Please ignore me. I'm sorry I even brought it up. LOL.

 

[athos]

Depends how much they do it.

Can someone who doesn't cook complain in a restaurant? Can a non-movie-director complain about a movie? And a non-RPG-designer complain about a game system?

They're certainly entitled to express criticism; but if they're doing it so much that it's to the detriment of everyone else's fun then maybe they need to learn a few manners and do so at a more appropriate time.

I have to disagree here. When you go to a restaurant or a movie, you are PAYING for something, in a RPG, you are getting something for free.

If movies and food were free, would you really complain? I think that would be kind of rude.

DMing is a contribution to the group, if you don't like it, do it better, but don't whine about how someone else is doing it wrong. I always tell my players if they aren't satisfied, I will return 150% of the money they paid me to DM . Where else are you going to get a money back guarentee like that?

 

[Rel]

There is nothing wrong in expressing one's opinion. As long as it could give new ideas to the one who accepts it. Sometimes we just have to understand what the point really is. Or the discussion could go somewhere else...

Aaaaand SPAMBANNED!

 

[Chainsaw]

Yeah, I'd say chronic complaining at the table during play would be sorry as hell. In my experience, many players and DM's (especially as adults) go to special trouble to schedule playing time, so disrespecting that effort with complaints that can be handled in e-mails or phone calls or conversations ON THEIR OWN TIME (perfectly legit as long as it doesn't become harassment) is just sorry as hell. On game day, STFU and play what's offered with a smile and a Coke -- or don't show up.

 

[Nork]

No, it should not serve as a basis for determining who should have the right to complain. The right to complain is earned by the right of the content of the complaint.

Shut up worthy complaining: "You are not letting my character be a super-hero that can do any action they wish, whenever they wish, to whomever they wish, without consequences. The fact that my wizard can't beat Ares the God of War in a fist fight, and Ares the God of War cut him and made him bleed for trying is proof of this unfairness. I'm going to complain non-stop about how this isn't fair".

Good "complaining": "I don't feel like our characters have a chance in combat, and it feels like our characters are just getting beat up until the DM decides to hand wave and let us survive. Having tough combat is a fine and good thing if the intention is to add tension and the feeling of danger to the game, but it doesn't feel like that is where we are. I think we should try making some changes to see if we can accomplish that goal in a more effective manner, while still giving us a chance to triumph convincingly if we are cautious and use good tactics and teamwork."


One type of complaining comes from a completely self-centered point of view, which is not the basis for a conversation. You also DO NOT want those people running a game. (Well, if you don't mind needing to kiss the ring of the DM's pet Mary Sue every five minutes or "suffer their wrath", then I suppose you might want them to DM.)

The other type of complaining is an expression of a belief that the parties involved are not at a common goal, or that there could be alterations made to the status quo that will provide large gains in happiness for some parties with minimal or acceptable losses in happiness for other parties. Those people shouldn't be silenced on the basis of "pay your dues or be quiet".