Assassin Feedback

[Artoomis]

I sent the following to WotC

Since assassins only have weapon attacks, the Ki Focus write-up is in error and is confusing. I suggest a wholesale re-write from:

Assassins focus their shadow energy through a ki
focus, which is not an object they wield but a reservoir
of magical power within themselves. When using
a ki focus, an assassin taps into the power of shadow
magic and channels it into both implement and
weapon attacks.

You can imbue your ki focus with magic as if it
were a physical weapon. When you have a magic
ki focus, you can add its enhancement bonus to the
attack rolls and the damage rolls of any weapon
attack you make using a weapon with which you’re
proficient.

If you have a magic ki focus and wield a magic
weapon, you choose before you use an attack power
whether to draw on the magic of your ki focus or to
employ the magic of your weapon. Your choice determines
which enhancement bonus, critical hit effects,
and magic item properties and powers you can apply
to attacks with that power. You can’t, for example,
use the enhancement bonus of your ki focus and the
property of your magic weapon with the same attack
power.

to something like:

Assassins focus their shadow energy through a ki
focus, which is not an object they wield but a reservoir
of magical power within themselves. When using
a ki focus, an assassin taps into the power of shadow
magic and channels it into weapon attacks.

While a ki focus is not an physical item, it is treated as
such and can be imbued with magic much like any other
implement. The enhancement bonuses to attack and
damage, and the magic item properties and powers you can
apply to attacks, all are focused through and delivered with
the weapon you are using.

If you have a magic weapon, you may choose to use replace the
enhancement bonuses to attack and damage, and the magic item
properties and powers you can apply to attacks, of your ki focus,
with those of the magic weapon.

As an aside, I think this is also a much better write-up for the monk, too. Using ki-focused weapon attacks may be a better concept for the monk, but, even without that, the core of the changes above are still better than what we have now for the monk, with only slight changes needed.

Feel free to add your own feedback or comment on mine.

 

[Artoomis]

I also sent:

Several of the poisons described here have
special effects which begin with “If this attack
reduces the target to 0 hit points, the target is
not killed but is instead knocked unconscious
and …”
...
All of this assumes, of course, that the assassin
leaves the target alive at 0 hit points rather than
just finishing it off.

Whoops - the power, as written, removes the option of a kill. They should be re-written to make it clear that is an option. For example:

Change Ungol dust from

...If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, the
target is not killed but is instead knocked unconscious and
permanently and visibly scarred.

to

If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, the
assassin may choose to leave the target alive and unconscious
as normal, but the target is permanently and visibly scarred.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Whoops - the power, as written, removes the option of a kill. They should be re-written to make it clear that is an option. For example:

It doesn't stop an assassin from plunging a dagger into the unconscious victim. I find nothing wrong with the poison as written, not everything has to be lethal.

 

[Artoomis]

It doesn't stop an assassin from plunging a dagger into the unconscious victim. I find nothing wrong with the poison as written, not everything has to be lethal.

That would take another action. The sidebar makes it clear that the intent is the assassin can choose to kill or not, but the poison write-up takes that choice away, at least as written.

I'm actually fine with it as written, but then the sidebar conflicts with it and I assume the sidebar is what they really meant to happen.

 

[Artoomis]

Another note sent off to WotC:

Some poison powers have odd wording that makes for weird game effect. Such as:

Carrion Crawler Brain Juice Poison Level 1
Purple, oily carrion crawler brain juice can cause sluggishness
and paralysis.
Assassin Poison
Power (Consumable F Poison): Minor Action. Apply the
carrion crawler brain juice poison to your weapon or one
piece of ammunition. Until the end of the encounter,
whenever you hit a creature with a weapon attack using
that weapon or ammunition, the target takes an extra 2
poison damage and is slowed until the end of your next
turn.

Note that you can use the poison for the entire encounter on a weapon, but only one piece of ammunition. However, a ranged weapon is a weapon, so one could make an encounter's worth of attacks with a ranged weapon with the poison - at least as written. The other way to read it is that an assassin is penalized for using ranged attacks.

I would suggest this get fixed by making it only the weapon that gets the poison - if it's a ranged weapon, it can be assumed that the proper amount of ammunition gets poisoned to either give the one attack per those poisons that give only one or to cover the entire encounter for those poisons that affect an entire encounter's worth of attacks. This is probably the most elegant solution, but it will require a short bit of explanatory text like what I just wrote above.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Note that you can use the poison for the entire encounter on a weapon, but only one piece of ammunition. However, a ranged weapon is a weapon, so one could make an encounter's worth of attacks with a ranged weapon with the poison - at least as written. The other way to read it is that an assassin is penalized for using ranged attacks.

This might be a deliberate opportunity cost for using poison at range. Sure, you can poison that arrow, but your poison is more effective on a dagger (or other melee weapon).

If you look at Slayer, there is a clear example of this opportunity cost. The standard striker bonus applies to any weapon they use as do most of their stances. However, Power Strike applies only to melee basic attacks. Thus, if you decide to be a purely ranged Slayer, you are paying a cost for that safty.

 

[WalterKovacs]

It seems deliberate. At higher levels it changes to "or 5 pieces of ammunition". Considering that assassin's wish to be hidden if at all possible, ranged attacks make it easier to pull off. [Also, the blowgun at-will in particular works well with the poisons].

As for the "if you keep them alive" ... I'm reasonably sure the sidebar is merely pointing out that, once the fight is over, it would be easy for the assassin to kill any of the unconcious enemies remaining. In the case of the poisons, an unconcious but living enemy would also suffer some other permanent effect. Most of those poisons are of the type which does not directly tie to a weapon attack, so the only thing 'attacking' is the poison. Thus, those poisons are not actually lethal, and can't kill. So, if they are used to deliver the killing blow, the enemy would not be killed. They would easily be in a position to be dispatched after the fight was over as even an unconcious character, especially one at 0 hp, needs at least a short rest before they can heal enough to regain conciousess.

 

[mneme]

Artooms: Actually, I don't think the intent is that the Assassin gets to decide whether the poison kills or not (particularly if it's killing with Ongoing Damage, where normally it would always kill, no choice).

The Assassin can always until after the fight is over before finishing the victim off.

What I find interesting here, btw, are the number of features they added that address complaints that the 4e Assassin wasn't that great at, well, assassinating people.

The first Assassin just had the "lie in wait three rounds before making an attack which, at best, will have a chance of killing an at-level foe". Not a bad class at all, but not great at doing the 1e "hide for a while and assassinate someone" thing. By contrast, the new assassin has:

1. Powers that render a target unable to cry out while you kill them, so you can kill them -- with damage -- over multiple rounds without alerting their friends.

2. Poisons that you can introduce into a situation and disable (at heroic levels) or kill/render unconcous (at epic levels) a foe before a fight even starts.

3. Powers that render a foe helpless (which lets you coup de gras them) and a damage feature that despite being a different source of damage than your regular attack (not sure why they did this, though it means it will work with minor action attacks on a helpless foe) is maximized if the foe is helpless.

4. A power that lets an Assassin who does damage to a foe bringing them down to 10*Tier of 0 health can kill them, thus A. giving them another general utility ability (among other things, you -know- that someone the Assassin just hit doesn't have 10*tier hp left if they're still standing; this is quite powerful as it avoids wasting encounter powers on the wrong target; it also provides extra damage), B. an ability that supports the ability ot assassinate a target, and C. emphasizing that assassins kill people--as an Assassin who brings a target within range of her death attack must decide then and there whether to kill the foe or leave them alive, able to act, but also subject to a nonlethal attack and be able to be questioned afterwards.

 

[Artoomis]

It seems deliberate. At higher levels it changes to "or 5 pieces of ammunition". Considering that assassin's wish to be hidden if at all possible, ranged attacks make it easier to pull off. [Also, the blowgun at-will in particular works well with the poisons].

...

Right, but, as written, one could use the poison on the blow gun and use it all encounter. That's not what is intended, I agree, but that's what it says. It needs to specify that you can put the poison on a melee weapon or ranged weapon ammunition or else the rules leave a gap that a truck could drive through. . It needs a fix on one kind of another.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Right, but, as written, one could use the poison on the blow gun and use it all encounter. That's not what is intended, I agree, but that's what it says. It needs to specify that you can put the poison on a melee weapon or ranged weapon ammunition or else the rules leave a gap that a truck could drive through. . It needs a fix on one kind of another.

Poison states: "Apply the [Poison Name] to your weapon or one (or five) piece of ammunition."

Blow Gun states: "LM" in the article or "Load Minor" in the compendium. The compendium even list "Blowgun Darts"

Precision Dart states: "If you deliver a poison with this attack"

What is unclear about these rules? Blowguns use ammunition. It is a minor action to load it. Poison can be applied to a limited amount of ammunition. Are you concerned that ammunition is not clear enough and the word "ranged weapon" ammunition should be added?