Oryan77
Adventurer
I'd say these guys are powergamers, not optimizers. I see an optimizer as someone that makes good use of the options available, without actually trying to make themselves invincible killing machines that whine when they don't get to use whatever options they ask for.
It sucks to say this, but unless they stop powergaming, you're campaign is doomed to fail. There really is no "fixing" your problem if the powergaming annoys you. Sure, you can do some things to get a moment of relief, but this problem will always nag at you unless they make new PCs that are not powergamed.
All these suggestions people give you about making NPCs challenging may work, but then what? You're going to make every encounter exactly the same just to play off the PCs weaknesses? Or are you going to put in a ton of extra work just coming up with new creative ways to challenge them? That's why I don't like playing with powergamers, they force the DM to do more unnecessary work. And then if you get to a point where you can give them appropriate challenges, the powergamers take that as a reason for why they need to powergame even more, "I lost some hitpoints even though we won, I'm not powerful enough!"
It also is not helping that your powergamers are also argumentative. Basically you have "problem players" and not even powergamers. Some powergamers can still keep it toned down enough when you point out that they are making it hard on you as DM. But a problem player only cares about getting their way and will be disruptive when they don't get their way.
My advice is to politely explain to these players that their current PCs are making it difficult for you to challenge. Explain that part of the fun of D&D is the chance to beat up on an enemy, which means that as a DM, you want the chance to beat up on the enemy also!
I would offer the following options to them:
1. Ask them to rework their PCs using a limited set of rules, and not to mix and match rules that will benefit each other in a way that they might not have been intended to do (powergaming).
2. Ask them to create new PCs at the same level with the same restrictions as #1.
3. Ask them to create new 1st level PCs with the same restrictions as #1, and follow that rule each time they level.
4. Ask someone else to DM.
5. Ask them to leave the group if they do not wish to comply to your wishes.
Personally, I don't play with powergamers anymore. I've kicked a couple out of the group before in order to keep my sanity. I don't have patience with players that want to cause me grief when all I want to do is run a fun game of D&D (and I want it to be fun for me also). A powergamer can still make a good player in your game if he isn't being a deuschbag about it, a problem player will never be a good player in your game. Get rid of the problem players as soon as possible and you'll never have to post on Enworld about problems like this. I know from experience, the game is so much more fun when you have good players and never need to rant about them on the forums!
It sucks to say this, but unless they stop powergaming, you're campaign is doomed to fail. There really is no "fixing" your problem if the powergaming annoys you. Sure, you can do some things to get a moment of relief, but this problem will always nag at you unless they make new PCs that are not powergamed.
All these suggestions people give you about making NPCs challenging may work, but then what? You're going to make every encounter exactly the same just to play off the PCs weaknesses? Or are you going to put in a ton of extra work just coming up with new creative ways to challenge them? That's why I don't like playing with powergamers, they force the DM to do more unnecessary work. And then if you get to a point where you can give them appropriate challenges, the powergamers take that as a reason for why they need to powergame even more, "I lost some hitpoints even though we won, I'm not powerful enough!"
It also is not helping that your powergamers are also argumentative. Basically you have "problem players" and not even powergamers. Some powergamers can still keep it toned down enough when you point out that they are making it hard on you as DM. But a problem player only cares about getting their way and will be disruptive when they don't get their way.
My advice is to politely explain to these players that their current PCs are making it difficult for you to challenge. Explain that part of the fun of D&D is the chance to beat up on an enemy, which means that as a DM, you want the chance to beat up on the enemy also!
I would offer the following options to them:
1. Ask them to rework their PCs using a limited set of rules, and not to mix and match rules that will benefit each other in a way that they might not have been intended to do (powergaming).
2. Ask them to create new PCs at the same level with the same restrictions as #1.
3. Ask them to create new 1st level PCs with the same restrictions as #1, and follow that rule each time they level.
4. Ask someone else to DM.
5. Ask them to leave the group if they do not wish to comply to your wishes.
Personally, I don't play with powergamers anymore. I've kicked a couple out of the group before in order to keep my sanity. I don't have patience with players that want to cause me grief when all I want to do is run a fun game of D&D (and I want it to be fun for me also). A powergamer can still make a good player in your game if he isn't being a deuschbag about it, a problem player will never be a good player in your game. Get rid of the problem players as soon as possible and you'll never have to post on Enworld about problems like this. I know from experience, the game is so much more fun when you have good players and never need to rant about them on the forums!
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