Letting Players Narrate in the Game?

[Glyfair]

If the person organising it wants to invite someone to that other kind of game (and yes, that kind of game is also perfectly legitimate in its own right, etc.) they should say so, up front. Knowing it's not a traditional role playing game would help when, you know, it happens that's not what's on offer.(

I disagree with something like this being "not a traditional roleplaying game." IT's something of a sliding scale, as mentioned before. I know of a few roleplaying games I would consider "traditional" that use some level of player control over the narrative.

One of my favorite RPGs is James Bond. Some of the rules allow some control for the players in order to simulate the genre. At the lowest level, if the players do something like knock out a guard and use his uniform to infiltrate the enemy base, the clothing always fits. That's sort of a passive amount of narrative control.

At a higher level, players can always try to spend one or more hero points to modify the environment in small, appropriate ways. The GM determines how many points need to be spent (mostly based on appropriateness) or even if it is possible. For example, it might only cost one point to have a suit of armor with sort in the high class mansion, it might cost 2 or 3 to have a revolver in the desk drawer open in front of you (and that might not even be allowed).

In pretty much all other ways, James Bond plays as what most here would consider a traditional RPG. In my mind, it is.

At another level, Greg Stafford's Prince Valiant has a chapter in the advanced section recommending that players take over as the GM for periods of time. For example, if the adventure calls for a sea voyage, perhaps one of the players takes over for the duration of the voyage. His character is indisposed (perhaps seasick, if in character) and the GM takes over a temporary character (say one of the sailors).

The game can player straight and very traditional, but it has this one element that definitely allows a certain amount of player control (in fact, the reward for taking over this duty allows a bit more) if it is used.

I do feel that if you have a group that expects a very "GM is in control of the world" style of game, and you want to try to move in that direction, you probably want to start small. In my experience, most players are open to trying at least some of this, once they become used to the option being on the table.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I disagree with something like this being "not a traditional roleplaying game."

And hey, that's cool too. It's a perspective, not a religion, as far as I'm concerned. That other people see things differently not only doesn't surprise me, it doesn't bother me at all either.

In pretty much all other ways, James Bond plays as what most here would consider a traditional RPG. In my mind, it is.

(emphasis mine)

Quite so.

In my experience, most players are open to trying at least some of this, once they become used to the option being on the table.

Neat. If that's what everyone wants, then why not do that. Makes sense to me.

As previously noted, I believe there's room for all kinds of games in this world. Just a matter of what appeals to each group, is all.


Oddly enough, Barastrondo hits on the key point I feel traditional RPGs (or, to me personally, "RPGs proper") excel at, more than any alternative. And that is exploration. And/or mystery, I would add. That vicinity, anyway. But others feel that RPGs ("proper" or otherwise) excel in a different area, or different areas. Naturally.

 

[steenan]

For me, it depends strongly on the kind of game being played. In general, adventure games have more uses for player narration than investigative or horror games, non-immersive more than immersive ones, ones with light and abstract rules more than ones with crunchy and detailed rules.

There are also several levels of player narration that I see as distinct. Some of them are good in situations where others are not.

1. Character background being created in game, not before it starts. Players describe PC histories in only a sentence or two before the game; than they add details when they think they are relevant to what's happening in the session. They may state they have been in given place, that they know given NPC and other past events they deem important. It's not completely freeform - the allowed scope of such declarations is decided before game and the GM (or other players) may veto declarations that go too far or make the game less instead of more interesting. If the scope of in-game background declarations is small, it fits any game. If it is wider, it won't work well in a traditional game (interfering with the plot in a plotted game and with the pre-created world in a sandbox game), but may be used in more genre-defined games.

2. Declaring and describing actions that use details of an environment that haven't been described by the GM, but are reasonable to assume (with possible GM veto). It fits nearly every play style and every game. If the setting is reasonably well known to all parties, this style of narration is faster and flows more naturally than asking questions about every detail.

3. Describing actions and their results after they are rolled for. It works perfectly in any game aiming for a cinematic feel, with a system that is reasonably abstract. Knowing what the (mechanical) results are, a player may describe his success or failure in a fun, interesting way - a way that fits his character better than what the GM could come up with.

4. Adding new pieces of environment, deciding actions of NPCs etc., usually in a way limited somehow by the game mechanics. If such a possibility is reasonably extensive, it creates a game style on it's own, much different than in a traditional RPG. It requires both an appropriate system (mechanics limiting player's narrative control, not character's abilities) and appropriate approach from players (focus on shared creation of fun, genre-appropriate story, not on character's success). Some people may refuse to call such a game an RPG, some (like me) see it as a border case.

 

[Trevalon Moonleirion]

I tried to do a bit of this in my one and only long-term foray into 4e DMing last year and I was very pleased with the result. I opened up the offer right from the outset to have some say in world-building via the wiki, and even offered some incentive to help get me some deities (thanks for the inspiration, PKitty!)

In game, my biggest player narration thing was letting them decide and describe what they did in a month of offscreen time in between the first and second adventures. I popped in every now and then, but it was generally all them.

I record all of my game sessions, and am pretty good about jotting down quick notes even if I don't, so I never really worry about forgetting some detail of the world that others came up with. (And if I did, I'm sure I'd get a reminder of it from whomever thought it up )

 

[tuxgeo]

Funny enough, now that I realize it, one of my players, in almost every D&D game we've played, has had a character that can cast Cantrip (either by spell or item or feat) or has had some sort of item that lets him pull random stuff out of it.

< No mere ordinary snippage, this; there's some dire snippage going on here! >

Oy. "Feat?" I just searched the online D&D Compendium for "cantrip" and limited the search to Feats, with zero results.
Elaborate, please? [Bargle thanks you.]

 

[Hussar]

Oh man, you want the exact quote? IIRC, and this is stabbing pretty wildly, the Savage Tide AP Player's Guide had something that let you cast cantrip a couple of times a day.

The item was something I made up on the spot. He wanted to be able to have something funky, so I gave it to him and used this site to tell him what he pulled out of his pockets.

 

[tuxgeo]

Oh man, you want the exact quote? IIRC, and this is stabbing pretty wildly, the Savage Tide AP Player's Guide had something that let you cast cantrip a couple of times a day.

Ah, OK, that's what I get for assuming that it was D&D.

If PF has something like that, it naturally wouldn't get into the WotC Compendium. And house rules wouldn't either. . . .

Thanks for the quick answer, in any case.

 

[Hussar]

Well, it's Savage Tide, so, it IS D&D, not Pathfinder. ST was the last Dungeon AP from Paizo - so, it's 100% official.

But, yeah, not going to be in the compendium I think. You could peruse the Paizo site though, I believe the player's guide to Savage Tide is still up.