Class Compendium: Heroes of Legend

[nogray]

Edition shifts

... when using a two-handed weapon ...

There was another side to the power attack change. Light weapons were excluded from use with power attack. That was a problem for a select assortment of characters.

I once ran in a (3.0) party where the one of the players had an elf fighter wielding a pair of short swords. He had a mediocre strength (about 14) and a pretty high dexterity (20-ish?), so he used weapon finesse. His native short-sword damage was fairly paltry, even including the two-weapon fighting feats, so he used power attack to make up for the lack in damage. He also used (from a friendly spellcaster) empowered, extended cat's grace to further boost his dexterity by 3-7 points for the adventuring day. His melee viability went from pretty good to almost ludicrously bad with the half-edition shift.

... being able to create certain magic items to it now being disallowed ...

I think the argument here is one of character investment. It no longer requires a feat for each type of item being created, but rather the purchase of a single ritual among many available. Someone who bought the arcana training and the ritual caster and the ritual itself just to make items may feel cheated, though, so I really do understand that complaint. I just don't see many characters making that sort of investment. It seems more likely that item creation is more of a side-effect of having other rituals already.

As a DM, I would see the request for an uncommon or rare item to be made as an invitation to adventure. Mentioned in the Magic Item Rarity article ( Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Magic Item Rarity) ) is the following bit of verbiage:

Even those smiths who can make them require exotic, difficult-to-find materials to complete them.

I see no reason to exclude my heavily invested item making character from the category of "those ... who can make the item." Sounds like its player-driven adventure time.

... (arcana) skill description ...

The exotic items listed (using as diplomacy, controlling a magic effect) are, to be fair, in the "improvising with arcana" section, not the normal uses of the skill. Also, to my knowledge, the only place rituals come up in Essentials so far is in a sidebar under Arcana, perhaps explaining why identifying rituals is not a common use for the skill.

 

[AngryMojo]

weird even when playing a greatax welding oger with a 30 strength (yes it was unballenced) i found power atteck nearly useless due to loosing the bab

I once had the opportunity to play with a group of people who had that mentality. It was a level 5 game, I played a fighter with a greatsword. I beat the damage output of the rest of the party combined, thanks to power attack. They all looked at me like I was crazy for taking it, but made jokes about me vaporizing things when I hit.

And I almost always hit.

 

[Jhaelen]

I think you can keep up just fine using only the free Rules Updates.

Ok, so I have a few questions... What Skill DC's are you actually using? What treasure placement rules are you using? How about Magic Items?

Actually, I had been house-ruling these things anyway. So, all the MM3 / Essentials updates did was either confirm or replace my house-rules. In the case of magic items, though, I prefer to ignore the changes.

There seem to be alot more differences than people are admitting to. As an example... take a look at the Arcana skill description in the PHB and then look at it in the RC. RC has changed the official uses of this skill dramatically and the new applications of this skill are not in the PHB eratta.

Yay for hyperbole!

 

[xechnao]

The house rule excuse of Jhaelen and MrMyth is not a valid argument in this debate.

 

[The Choice]

The house rule excuse of Jhaelen and MrMyth is not a valid argument in this debate.

Actually, in Jhaelen's case, it is. He specifically stated that the rules update from Essentials either replaced or confirmed his house rule. Since the rules update is free and part of the core, what you were hinting at (what I believe is sometimes called the "Oberoni Fallacy") doesn't come into play.

And since both have stated that they now use some form of the revised Skills DCs chart (either from an Essentials rulebook or from the rules update document), the only real question is whether or not the treasure placement and magic item rarity scheme can be deemed to be houserules if they are ignored in a post-essentials game.

I don't believe so, as the documents from which those come have not been updated (well, magic item rarity has been introduced in the october update, but that's about it, and that's pretty much an esthetic change for most games).

 

[Imaro]

Actually, in Jhaelen's case, it is. He specifically stated that the rules update from Essentials either replaced or confirmed his house rule. Since the rules update is free and part of the core, what you were hinting at (what I believe is sometimes called the "Oberoni Fallacy") doesn't come into play.

And since both have stated that they now use some form of the revised Skills DCs chart (either from an Essentials rulebook or from the rules update document), the only real question is whether or not the treasure placement and magic item rarity scheme can be deemed to be houserules if they are ignored in a post-essentials game.

I don't believe so, as the documents from which those come have not been updated (well, magic item rarity has been introduced in the october update, but that's about it, and that's pretty much an esthetic change for most games).

Emphasis mine...I find this strange as "officially" the skill DC's haven't been updated in the eratta.

 

[Scribble]

Emphasis mine...I find this strange as "officially" the skill DC's haven't been updated in the eratta.

My guess is that this is because they haven't gotten the new books fully into the CB yet.

 

[RigaMortus2]

3.0 to 3.5 changed not just the details of classes and races and feats and spells (usually in ways with much larger ramifications on the game), but also core systems like magic items, damage reduction, monster creation, and the skill system. Changes to Bull's Strength, Haste, etc completely altered entire play styles. I don't think I've seen a single change in all of 4E that compares to the changes to those spells.

I'd consider the change to Magic Missle to be significant. If I were more familair with Essentials, I could probably point out more dramatic changes.

 

[Imaro]

My guess is that this is because they haven't gotten the new books fully into the CB yet.

How is this a justification for not updating the DC's in the eratta document? Nothing about the new DC's is dependent upon the new books being in the CB... especially since, unless I am recalling incorrectly, they are in the Compendium?

 

[The Choice]

Emphasis mine...I find this strange as "officially" the skill DC's haven't been updated in the eratta.

Oops ... my mistake! I thought it was included in the october update, but it wasn't. It was just posted on the WotC site. Still, kinda official, I guess.