Tabletopocalypse Now - GMS' thoughts about the decline in the hobby

[prosfilaes]

I'd venture there are more people playing Bridge than there are rpgs.

Sure. But I've heard that 40 year olds who start playing Bridge get told that it's nice to see some young people pick up the game.

Regardless, word of mouth is how the hobby got started, not fancy product on the shelves. It will continue that way if the industry goes belly up. I'm not suggesting it's in any danger of doing that anytime soon, but the dirty little secret is that the hobby doesn't need the industry. It never did.

On one hand, I think you're wrong; if there aren't new books, then there won't be new people, and even the old people will get tired of working with faded photocopies of the same old, same old, and drift off to a hobby where every conversation with friends doesn't go "D&D? I thought they stopped making that?" "Well, they did, but..."

On the flipside, the industry is not separate from the hobby. If the industry doesn't exist any more, then it's because there's not enough people were buying material; and given the tiny (even negative) margins and the part-time hours some RPG companies run on, that's damming. If there's no industry left, it's because there's no hobby left to feed it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The idea that specialty stores are important to RPGs are based on two things: sales, and a place to play.

For me, at least, they've never been about a place to play.

Actually, I think they're more important as a place of gathering and community. I also think they're more important than Amazon & their ilk for the health of second tier- a.k.a. small market and indie games.

But however important they are, they are not indespenible- the hobby can do fine without them.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

There weren't many, to be sure, but they were out there. Its just that for many of the stores, RPGs were not their initial core business. Then again, since they predated the hobby, they couldn't be. Most of them sold comics, sci-fi/fantasy books, wargames and the like.

You are correct, I mis-spoke. (Mis-typed?) I should have said gaming specilist stores.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You are correct, I mis-spoke. (Mis-typed?) I should have said gaming specilist stores.

Like I said, there were, just not many.

Unless you're using "gaming" to refer to RPG gaming exclusively- and I haven't seen many of those at ANY point since 1977 forward- the stores I went to qualified.

In 1977 in Denver, the comic stores sold all kinds of AH boardgames & wargames...and D&D and Dragon magazine.

In KC in 1980, King's Crown (and whatever one it was that was in the mall) both had loads of wargames...and D&D, and walls and walls of minis from Ral Partha, Grenadier and Heritage (and other companies) in 15mm and 25mm sizes. The one in the mall prided itself on making sure it restocked TSR's entire line of modules every month, and would do special orders.

The one in Topeka (same time period) is where I first saw Heritage's Great Dragon- the one that was a lead mini the size of some of WotC's plastic ones- and for just $25 (later pictured in Dragon mag)...and where I bought the original Deities & Demigods instead.

I didn't mention it before, but when I moved to the D/FW area in 1982, I discovered Lone Star Comics. That chain- still around today and thriving (7 stores at last count)- stocked comics, genre novels, memorabilia, minis, gaming magazines (Dragon, Dungeon, White Wolf, Pyramid, etc.) and a wide variety of RPGs. Its a formula they maintain to this day, FWIW, and is found in several other successful game stores in the area.

The stores were out there during that era; they were just rare.

 

[Korgoth]

I didn't find the article very informative... it harps on one data point and attempts to draw conclusions that I don't think are warranted. Did the author have a very successful career in the role playing game industry? If not, that is probably not his fault since almost no one ever has. But maybe his experiences have affected his judgment here.

The problem with the role playing game industry isn't that it is dying (it may or may not be, neither GMS nor I probably have any way of knowing)... the problem is that it isn't very profitable. And it probably will never be very profitable.

How much are people willing to pay for an RPG product? Negligible to very little. What type of revenue stream is actually required to actively participate? None. What level of initial investment is required to participate? None to very small. What is the scope of the appeal of the products? Narrow. What type of margin is earned on the few products actually sold? Slim.

Those are the facts of the "industry". You're not going to be driving around in a Mercedes with your earnings from the RPG industry. You'll be lucky to afford a Hyundai.

It's a tough racket. That's how it is.

But the good news is that gaming as a whole is doing very well. Boardgames are experiencing a veritable Renaissance. People like to sit down together in person and play games. And the "light Euros" like Settlers and Carcassonne have really opened up the American market to accepting more complex, strategically interesting games than it has accepted in the past.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Did the author have a very successful career in the role playing game industry?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Don't feel bad, Korgoth, I've never heard of him either, despite being in the hobby since '77 and playing in more than 100 rpg systems- including a couple of playtests- and still having 60+ on my shelf.

And I'm not surprised, since I checked out his contributions to the hobby here:

Gareth-Michael Skarka :: Pen & Paper RPG Database


and not a one of those is on my shelves or has ever been in my possession.

 

[Glyfair]

But I wouldn't expect it ever to die off completely, and in fact think it may not shrink too much more.

I do not think anyone has ever suggested it will die off completely. As many have suggested, bridge is a game that's popularity (at least in the U.S.) is literally dying off*. The average age in the ACBL was closing in on sixty a decade or more ago, and I am sure it has crept up lately. However, the game is still strong and the national events (3 times a year) gets attendance that probably at least equals GenCon.

I have a theory about a contributing factor that I will discuss in another thread at some later date. In a nutshell, I think right now RPGs have become more specialized than they used to be and there is a lack of an RPG that tries to appeal at some level to most of the gaming styles.

* I recently spoke to a bridge acquaintance about the local unit and he mentioned that the size was shrinking and mostly because the mainstays were getting older and passing away.

 

[prosfilaes]

Those are the facts of the "industry". You're not going to be driving around in a Mercedes with your earnings from the RPG industry. You'll be lucky to afford a Hyundai.

I think you left out at least one important factor. A bunch of the people here have written RPG material for publication. You have to pay cashiers and garbage men, but musicians and writers (RPG and other) will put out their product for free if they have to. Sure, you pay for polish, and the best can do pretty well, but there's no limit of competitors keeping the paygrade down for the merely good.

 

[nedjer]

Figures also don't include free games, which may be more prevalent than might be expected because TRPGs 'recruit' via teenagers and students. Both groups with little cash for multi-volume sets and much more appreciation of free content than most 'consumers'.

For a student, possibly, the rules are more like a browser, i.e. a framework into which you put your group's content. With many thousands of fees and debts to pay it's plain good sense to put cost and gameplay before brand.

In the UK the 'transition' from teenage player to 'adult' gamer has long been fed by a persistent network of university and college gaming clubs (many of which accept non-students through the door). Did some basic research into the games they were playing about 18-24 months ago and free or budget games were much more prevalent than the 'top 4'. It was interesting to see that rules tended to focus on player choice and novelty. Didn't look at AD&D on its own, but there also seemed to be a sense of 'cool' attached to more modern games, alongside a sense of 'uncool' attached to older, larger brands.