Converting Epic Level Creatures

[Cleon]

This should be fun.

Undead Mass: AC 7; HD n/a; hp 111; #AT up to 12 (max 2 per PC); THAC0=15; Dmg 1d6 (bite, buffet, etc.) + 1d4 electrical damage (save vs. Spells for half damage); MV 30’ (10’); Save MU16; ML 12; AL N; XPs 3,000.

We'd have to do a lot to these things to make them Epic.

Something like a poor man's undead Hecatoncheires?

I also would fancy a lower-CR conversion, maybe a 16 HD Swarm of "electrified undead parts".

That makes me think, are their any Swarms in the Epic Level Handbook? I don't remember any...

 

[Shade]

I'm OK if the final product doesn't end up epic, but I'd at least like to make them really big (probably Gargantuan), with lots of attacks.

I'd be up for spawning off an additional swarm creature with a different name.

The only epic swarm is the Ruin Swarm.

 

[Cleon]

I'm OK if the final product doesn't end up epic, but I'd at least like to make them really big (probably Gargantuan), with lots of attacks.

I'd be up for spawning off an additional swarm creature with a different name.

The only epic swarm is the Ruin Swarm.

Dang it, I must have gone blind not to see "Swarm" in the names.

Okay, so let's we do a high-CR Gargantuan monster first and then a "swarm o' undead bits" version.

Might as well do the tough one first.

So far, we've got 24 Hit Dice and Gargantuan size but not much else.

Is there any monster you'd like to base it on?

 

[Shade]

None in particular. I imagine it's a bit of blend of flesh jelly and darktentacles (replacing tentacles with other body parts).

 

[Shade]

Some ideas:

• Amorphous traits
• Blindsight
• Rather than creating spawn, assimilates corpses for extra attacks
• Since it deals electrical damage, perhaps it is also is healed by it, like a flesh golem?
• Maybe as a special attack it can string together a mass of limbs for extended reach?

 

[Cleon]

None in particular. I imagine it's a bit of blend of flesh jelly and darktentacles (replacing tentacles with other body parts).

Sounds OK. Shall we take a darktentacles, increase the size to Gargantuan and turn it into an 24 HD Undead?

Somewhat ironically, the 3rd edition Monster Manual II darktentacles has slam attacks rather than tentacles, which I think is fine for the "Undead Mass".

That would give something like:

Undead Mass
Gargantuan Undead
Hit Dice: 24d12 (156 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft.
Armor Class: 21 (-4 size, +1 Dex, +14 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+36
Attack: Slam +20 melee (1d6+12) or battleaxe +20 melee (2d6+12/×3)
Full Attack: 24 slams +20 melee (1d6+12); or battleaxe +20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+12/×3) and 23 battleaxes +20 melee (2d6+6)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d6+12?, enhanced multiweapon fighting, improved grab?
Special Qualities: All-around vision, blindsense 60 ft., darkvision 60 ft., undead traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +14?
Abilities: Str 35, Dex 13, Con —, Int ?, Wis ?, Cha ?
Skills: ?
Feats: 9
Environment: ?
Organization: ?
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: ?
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 25-35 HD (Gargantuan); 36-72 HD (Colossal)
Level Adjustment: —

Description.

Flavour Text.

Proficient in all simple or martial melee weapons?

Cannot speak but understands X?

Combat
When making a full attack, an undead mass has 1 attack per racial Hit Dice it possesses.

An undead mass can make up to three attacks at once against a Small or Medium-size opponent. Against a larger foe, it can make three additional attacks for each extra 5 feet of face the opponent has, provided it has the reach. Against a Tiny or smaller opponent, the creature can make only one attack at a time. It can make a maximum of three attacks against all foes in any single 5-foot by 5-foot area.

Constrict (Ex):

Enhanced Multiweapon Fighting (Ex): Can wield weapons in all its limbs simultaneously without attack penalty, within some size limit (up to Large-sized light or 1-handed weapons?).

Improved Grab (Ex): Maybe give it a racial bonus to grapple, and/or that "hold opponent at -10 instead of -20" ability?

 

[Cleon]

Some ideas:

• Amorphous traits
• Blindsight
• Rather than creating spawn, assimilates corpses for extra attacks
• Since it deals electrical damage, perhaps it is also is healed by it, like a flesh golem?
• Maybe as a special attack it can string together a mass of limbs for extended reach?

Those all sound good.

I'd add Fast Healing, assuming they can rearrange its "corpse bits" to repair damage.

Maybe give it some ranged offense - perhaps chain lightning since it's all electrical?

 

[Shade]

I'm not fond of the idea of it wielding weapons. I picture it as a mindless, crawling mass, just lashing out with its undead bits. I'd also like to retain a nice mix of slams, claws, and bites like the original.

The Str seems fine, but I'm not sure about a Dex bonus.

Maybe Str 35, Dex 10, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1?

 

[Cleon]

I'm not fond of the idea of it wielding weapons. I picture it as a mindless, crawling mass, just lashing out with its undead bits. I'd also like to retain a nice mix of slams, claws, and bites like the original.

How about we add a weapon-using "Battlefield Undead Mass" variant and leave the standard version with just bites and slams?

Oh, I forgot the electricity kicker on the slam attacks. It ought to be 1d6+12 plus xdx electricity. Maybe 1d6 electricity?

The Str seems fine, but I'm not sure about a Dex bonus.

Maybe Str 35, Dex 10, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1?

I have no objection to the lower Dexterity.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

I was going to give 'em an amorphous SQ, but all the benefits are covered by the undead type and all-around vision.

I'd like to give 'em and even number of attacks of each type (as I currently have reflected on the attack lines). However, I wonder if it shouldn't apply the same Str modifier to all of them (another SQ, perhaps?) Maybe a variation on this?

Superior Multiweapon Fighting (Ex): A hecatoncheires fights with a greatsword or boulder in each hand. The hecatoncheires does not suffer an attack or damage penalty for attacking with one hundred weapons. However, the press of limbs prevents the creature from making iterative attacks with any of its arms, nor can it make more than ten attacks against a Small or smaller creature, fifteen attacks against a Medium creature, or twenty attacks against a Large creature in the same action (it can make all its attacks against a Huge or larger creature in one action).

For the "improved grapple", I'd favor just giving it a racial bonus on grapple checks due to its many limbs.