November 16th release for Web-based Character Builder

[Katana_Geldar]

DEFCON, I don't think the people who are cancelling are "trying to prove a point". It's because the service doesn't give us what we want anymore.

 

[JoeGKushner]

No they can't. Because they're not your books. They're the library, and you're paying a monthly fee to come in and photocopy the information inside their copies of the books to use on your homework projects.

Now you can still go out and buy your own copies of the books if you want... but if you want to go to the one central place where all the books are stored within easy reach and can pull the info out and rearrange it a lot faster than you could at home... you just have to pay your monthly subscription for the right to do so.

Suffice it to say then, that the library may change books and titles. Remember those people who bought, legally PDFs and were told they could download them a certain number of times?

Yeah, library my ass.

And hey, I'm sure it's already been answered, but what happens to the IP of people when they create something on the thing eh? I recall that on Gleemax that didn't go down quite as well as WoTC thought it would...

 

[Ahrimon]

As long as they add an export function fairly soon I'll be ok with it. As it is, the idea that they have my characters and I loose access to them when my subscription runs out is completely wrong in my book.

A prefered solution would be an export function and then an offline character reader/player. I don't want to export my characters as PDF though. A data export so the character is usable in things like iPlay4e is what I want. I don't care if WotC makes the app or a 3rd party does it. I want to embrace the digital age dagnabit.

The perfect solution would be to seperate character access from the builder. So that if for some reason my subscription expires I still have view/export capabilities for the characters I've made. Even if I can't level them up or create new.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'll check in on it in a few months, see what everyone thinks, see if the place I game ever gets internet access, etc..

Hell, maybe it'll work on Android and I can use my cell phone right? Because despite how popular the iPad is, Android too is very popular and if WoTC is 'aiming' for the future, they've got a few targets to hit.

Out of curiosity... what exactly is the reason why you don't like to print copies of your character and bring them with you when you play? I mean, you obviously have access to the internet because you download the CB and its updates... so why do you need to play in a place that has internet access or an Android app (and presumably thus allowing you to read your character directly off the CB instead of a printed sheet of paper?)

 

[SteveC]

And I have a sneaking suspicion that quite a number of you who are proclaiming that you're "done"... will discover in three months time without having a Character Builder to use and trying to do everything by hand that... you know what? Maybe having it online-only really isn't such a big deal after all.

This is a very good point, as it is very hard to create a character with the full suite of options without using the builder. On the other hand, it is possible to do something to mitigate this with a fair bit of work, which I've started on.

For me, I can't use the new character builder for the majority of the time that I have been using it, so there's not much reason to keep the DDI subscription for me any longer.

I do have some hope, however, that this will prove to be such a monumentally bad decision that some offline system will come to light, or perhaps the old builder will see some updates. We'll have to see, I suppose. I don't expect that, however.

But for me at least, off-line is a big deal, since I don't have the ability to use it online when I play.

 

[malraux]

While I understand what you're saying here... I just have to admit that in this day and age... what you're advocating seems weird to me. I mean, I pay monthly subscriptions to get cable tv... to use Tivo... to use my cellphone... to play WoW... to get electricity into my home... to get fresh water into my home... etc. etc. And in all these cases... if I don't pay for them each month, then they get shut off and I can't use them. It's a fairly standard service/payment system. So why would I possibly think that something like DDI would be at all different from that?

Obviously you don't see it the same way, which is cool... but honestly I just really can't wrap my mind around it.

There's a big difference between services and products. Prior to this point, the CB was more or less on a product model, with a subscription service for updates. Now it is transitioning from that to a purely service model. As a consumer, I really dislike that sort of thing. Some things are better to own than to rent.

 

[SteveC]

Out of curiosity... what exactly is the reason why you don't like to print copies of your character and bring them with you when you play? I mean, you obviously have access to the internet because you download the CB and its updates... so why do you need to play in a place that has internet access or an Android app (and presumably thus allowing you to read your character directly off the CB instead of a printed sheet of paper?)

I just wanted to reply to this, since it's been asked a lot of times by folks. The character builder is by far the best way to get lists of everything for use in a 4E game. Want to know what level 13 magic weapons are there that can be made as a dagger? You can get a list in seconds.

Want to know EVERY feat your character can take next level? The character builder.

Want a list of every level three ritual? You get the idea.

Simply put, the character builder does a much better job of being the compendium than the compendium does.

--Steve

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hmm...

Let's do some good old fashioned organization...

THE GOOD

• It's in The Cloud! That's like being made of magic!: Any computer anywhere on earth can grab a D&D character. I could be squatting in a cybercafe in Uganda, or using a jailbroken LINUX-box cell phone, or viewing it while Skynet kills us all. That's pretty cool. That makes it very portable, and absolves all sorts of "can copy it x times" problems. This includes the "cross-compatibility" point.
• "We're working constantly to make it better.": This means any big disasters can be addressed pretty quickly, and we're still getting new stuff.
• Easy Updates: Web-Based = dynamic, rapid, easily accommodated updates, all of which might happen now more than 1/month!

THE BAD

• It's online-only! I need to be connected to make a character!: This sucks hard for anyone whose internet is intermittent, blocked, or otherwise hassled. However, for normal character use, there's still print-to-PDF, and there's talk of more (perhaps XML exporting). It's not ideal, but unless you need the CB at your tables operational in order to make a character directly at your table, you won't be hurt too much. And if you do, then you are more than within your rights to stop your subscription.
• They can take...our...books...!: This is true, and, for me, is the bigger concern. The DDI has already almost invalidated 3rd party content, and now, indeed, they will be literally able to stop you from using things that they don't want you to use (you might see this circa 5e's launch in, say, 5 years). It's not an immediate concern, but it's a bit unfortunate. You need to remember, every time you are paying that you are renting this content. This isn't a purchase. It's a loan. It's like you paid to go to the library. If that means it's not worth it for you, you shouldn't pay for it.
• Silverlight? iPad? Mobile?: Being web-based gains a bit of cross-platform compatibility, but tethering it to Silverlight does no favors to the platforms that can't make use of it, and it's not very forward-thinking.

THE RABID FOAMING INSANITY

• WotC was right to stick it to those mooches!: The issue of piracy reaches above, beyond, and through this, but piracy was not mentioned once by a WotC employee. That doesn't mean that isn't part of the reason, but it does mean they think that it stands on its own without that reason. Sharing and an API and exporting are all being looked into. The books will continue to be heavily pirated. By what's been said, mooches weren't a problem. Don't give WotC props for doing something to counteract a problem that, as far as word from the Coast is concerned, exists entirely in your own head.
• WotC owes me for everything I've done for them!: Loyalty, shmoyalty. Companies are in the business of profit, and if you don't like the direction they're seeking that in, don't patronize the company. You have every right to withdraw your support, and you even SHOULD, if it is a big deal for you, but please don't act like they shot your puppy. They would shoot every single puppy you've ever loved if there was $5 in it for them. They are a company, not a daddy.

I think it'll still be worth it for me to be a DDI subscriber. Tentatively. But that's a decision that's up to each person, and I respect that not everyone will think that it will be worth it. If PDF printing isn't enough for you and WotC dragging its feet on sharing, exporting, and other "nurture the gaming group" stuff is a deal-breaker for you, that's entirely fair.

But please keep in mind:

This doesn't appear to be about piracy/"mooching." So don't get all excited for WotC killing off nonpaying customers (who may have been shelling out in many other ways). From what they've said, we can't even imagine that nonpaying customers were even a problem on their radar...or at least that it's less of a concern than getting mac users on board.

This also isn't some big violation of your trust. If you feel that it is, you perhaps have too much invested in the mercenary creators of a make-believe elf game.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Suffice it to say then, that the library may change books and titles. Remember those people who bought, legally PDFs and were told they could download them a certain number of times?

Yeah, library my ass.

Hey, if you want to believe that by paying for one month of DDI access that you or anyone else have now "bought" the crunch of all the D&D books as if you had bought the books themselves... more power to ya. It's not true... but you can believe it if you want to.

And hey, I'm sure it's already been answered, but what happens to the IP of people when they create something on the thing eh? I recall that on Gleemax that didn't go down quite as well as WoTC thought it would...

Probably the same as all the characters designed for any online game I would imagine.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Out of curiosity... what exactly is the reason why you don't like to print copies of your character and bring them with you when you play? I mean, you obviously have access to the internet because you download the CB and its updates... so why do you need to play in a place that has internet access or an Android app (and presumably thus allowing you to read your character directly off the CB instead of a printed sheet of paper?)

Ink is expensive?

the character sheets look like ass?

Ever since I've been subbing to the DDI, I've never printed out a character sheet and run it off the laptop?

WoTC owes me personally nothing.

I owe WoTC personally... yeah, nothing.

Hell WoTC, put your money where your mouth is and sponsor wif-fi at the premier level game stores. Put some goodwill gestures out there as opposed to pretending to be masters of the hidden and secret and looking like you've been meaning to bone people over the DDI updates for at least two months eh?