I seem to be missing the point on the online CB

[Ryujin]

The main post in D&Di General about this subject is over 100 pages long and is closing in on 50,000 views. It's getting some attention.

I posted over there, once or twice, then pretty much gave up on the thread as impossible to keep up with. I would finish reading a page, then the thread was another page longer.

I would say that the majority of posts regarding this are quite negative, based on the restrictions for access or the technology used, but they aren't EXCLUSIVELY negative. Some people seem to be quite happy about it.

 

[Stumblewyk]

I am absolutely failing to see where all this uproar is coming from...this announcement has absolutely ZERO net impact on me, and gives my one dedicated "Mac Guy" player the option to not have to use his nightmarishly slow Windows PC for the CB anymore. Ditto for my "open source guy" player - he finally no longer has to keep his old PC around strictly for the CB. He's running Silverlight in Chromium on his Linux distro. He can run the Character Builder.

It's an absolute net positive for my group, and it doesn't effect me one bit. I don't use iplay4e. I can still fake an XML file for DnD4CM until they integrate exporting in the online builder. Absolutely no one I've ever played with has ever used the CB at the table.

I really think most of the negative complaints are coming from people who have been spoiled by having access to ALL the data, ALL the time, and sharing it around with their gaming group. The truth of the matter is - we ALL used to do this by hand. On real paper, with real pens and pencils. And we did just fine. For decades. Remember, it's called "P&P RPG" for a reason.

Yes - WotC's given us a pretty awesome tool for the last several years, but it's a tool they've always reserved the right to charge whatever they want for, and limit access to it in any way they want. We've just been flat-out spoiled. The simple truth is this: they're not obligated to provide us with ANY kind of tools, at all. Most RPG publishers don't provide awesome tools. Be thankful Wizards gives you ANYTHING.

 

[Ryujin]

I am absolutely failing to see where all this uproar is coming from...this announcement has absolutely ZERO net impact on me...

Perhaps because the majority of people don't seem to be in the same boat as you...? If you haven't already, I suggest that you read the thread over at Wizards. People have cited their reasons for being displeased with this. Good reasons.

Wizards have given us a good tool but, you know what? It was required. The existence of things like Character Builder have permitted them to be rather lax in checking the effects of various rules, features, and powers because they could easily be subject to errata at a later date.

Point of fact; the offline nature of Character Builder sold me on my subscription. As many others have I have now disabled automatic renewal for my DDI subscription, though it is annual and won't run out until February.

 

[Stumblewyk]

Wizards have given us a good tool but, you know what? It was required. The existence of things like Character Builder have permitted them to be rather lax in checking the effects of various rules, features, and powers because they could easily be subject to errata at a later date.

No, it's not required. People want to pretend it is, but it's simply not. It's incredibly useful, it simplifies and eases the character building process, but it's not required.

No one, ever, in the history of 4e, has been been required to have a DDI account to build a character. And they still aren't.

The only difference now is that if you want the privilege of having access to an awesome tool that makes your task a player (and DM) easier, you have to play for it, without letting your account lapse. There is no circumventing the pricing structure. You can't get everything for the low, low price of $10.00 once (or every couple of months).

I understand that many people are going to be "negatively" impacted by the announcement, but their complaints all boil down to "I'm inconvenienced", not "I can't play D&D anymore." When the real way to look at this whole mess is "Look how convenienced I was! Damn, I had it [a little too] good." IMO, of course.

 

[Ryujin]

No, it's not required. People want to pretend it is, but it's simply not. It's incredibly useful, it simplifies and eases the character building process, but it's not required.

No one, ever, in the history of 4e, has been been required to have a DDI account to build a character. And they still aren't.

The only difference now is that if you want the privilege of having access to an awesome tool that makes your task a player (and DM) easier, you have to play for it, without letting your account lapse. There is no circumventing the pricing structure. You can't get everything for the low, low price of $10.00 once (or every couple of months).

I understand that many people are going to be "negatively" impacted by the announcement, but their complaints all boil down to "I'm inconvenienced", not "I can't play D&D anymore." When the real way to look at this whole mess is "Look how convenienced I was! Damn, I had it [a little too] good." IMO, of course.

By my definitions when you have to go online and check what major part of your character has been fundamentally altered, making the books you paid big bucks to acquire obsolete, that tool becomes a requirement.

I don't characterize it as a privilege or inconvenience, when my entire decision to go with 4e (we had been playing Pathfinder for months) was predicated on the existence of the offline tool Character Builder. I also have an annual subscription, not monthly, that I have now disabled auto renewal for.

 

[Lord Ernie]

By my definitions when you have to go online and check what major part of your character has been fundamentally altered, making the books you paid big bucks to acquire obsolete, that tool becomes a requirement.

I don't characterize it as a privilege or inconvenience, when my entire decision to go with 4e (we had been playing Pathfinder for months) was predicated on the existence of the offline tool Character Builder. I also have an annual subscription, not monthly, that I have now disabled auto renewal for.

First of all, yes, if you want the updates and errata WotC publishes every few months, then you'll need the internet at some time to get access to them. This is pretty much a given, since that's how they publish their updates; much like it's impossible to patch any computer software without internet access, I don't see what else they could do.

However, you don't need the Character Builder at all to make a character - all the information to do just that is available in the books, and all you really need is 30-60 minutes of time, a piece of paper, and a pen. You are free to download the rules updates and incorporate them into your character building process without any digital tools - hell, this is what several of my players have been doing since the beginning. Likewise, you are free to completely ignore the updates, and just do as you always did.

What you see as a requirement, a need, is simply a convenience which has become so deeply ingrained in your character building process that you feel like you can't do without it. It's understandable, because the options for each character can be a little overwhelming, and I myself have refrained from making anything too complex by hand when I didn't have the tools available. But it's still a convenience.

Personally, whether or not I'm gonna go back to browsing books and using printed updates depends entirely on the look and feel of things in roughly two weeks from now. If the new tools disappoint me, I'll be going back to doing things by hand. But claiming it's necessary to be able to play the game is really rather hyperbolic.

 

[Walking Dad]

I announced it to my group last night as a piece of good news. Before, we had a tendency to hit the 5-updates-a-month barrier, and the Mac users couldn't run it. Now, with a single login everyone can get online and create characters, which is fantastic!

...

People sharing an account is surely what Hasbro wants and allow in the future. Why should they ever limit the number of saved characters and people logged in on one account at the same time...

First of all, yes, if you want the updates and errata WotC publishes every few months, then you'll need the internet at some time to get access to them. This is pretty much a given, since that's how they publish their updates; much like it's impossible to patch any computer software without internet access, I don't see what else they could do.
...

It was originally a pen&paper game and is advised as such. Other companies have simply checked the rules before printing them and lived with most of their rules until a revised edition came to be.

And it is a difference to download a small (data size, not page) pdf. Making it badly bookmarked and not able to have all errata of Warlord level 3 powers, for example, on one or three pages, makes a bad document.

I don't know any other game with as much errata as D&D 4e.

For the similarity to computer games, that is why I preferred consoles. They needed to make it right in the first place, not starting a patch tidal wave a month later

 

[Riastlin]

Likewise, you are free to completely ignore the updates, and just do as you always did.

This. I played 3.0/3.5 throughout its entire existence. My group never used the errata because, frankly, we just didn't want to deal with flipping through all those pages of errata.

Now, in 4th Ed., we have taken to using the eratta simply because the CB incorporated it for us. Were it not for the CB though we wouldn't be using the errata either. My first couple of characters (for LFR and a game at a FLGS) were made with pencil and paper. I hadn't bought into DDI yet (and I don't think CB was up at LFR launch at GenCon either, but I could be wrong on that one). It was easy then, and its still easy now. It just happens to be easier with the CB.

To me, the real drawback to the online version comes to those who travel a lot (presumably for work) and like to use the CB when they travel but may not be at a hotel (or other location) with internet access. I personally, do not buy the "I need to have CB up and running while I play argument." It may be somewhat convenient (though my personal experience suggests otherwise) but it is far from necessary. Paper and ink, while not free, are not that expensive either.

 

[Ryujin]

First of all, yes, if you want the updates and errata WotC publishes every few months, then you'll need the internet at some time to get access to them. This is pretty much a given, since that's how they publish their updates; much like it's impossible to patch any computer software without internet access, I don't see what else they could do.

However, you don't need the Character Builder at all to make a character - all the information to do just that is available in the books, and all you really need is 30-60 minutes of time, a piece of paper, and a pen. You are free to download the rules updates and incorporate them into your character building process without any digital tools - hell, this is what several of my players have been doing since the beginning. Likewise, you are free to completely ignore the updates, and just do as you always did.

What you see as a requirement, a need, is simply a convenience which has become so deeply ingrained in your character building process that you feel like you can't do without it. It's understandable, because the options for each character can be a little overwhelming, and I myself have refrained from making anything too complex by hand when I didn't have the tools available. But it's still a convenience.

Personally, whether or not I'm gonna go back to browsing books and using printed updates depends entirely on the look and feel of things in roughly two weeks from now. If the new tools disappoint me, I'll be going back to doing things by hand. But claiming it's necessary to be able to play the game is really rather hyperbolic.

Yes, you need the internet at some point in order to download those updates, whether for CB or PDFs. You don't need it CONSTANTLY, but rather very intermittently. What else could they have done? Something similar to a Microsoft KMS server, in order to verify your legitimate use of the software on a periodic basis wouldn't have been an onerous requirement, but would have continued to permit offline use.

Perhaps the use of the term "necessary" is somewhat over stating the point, but it doesn't rise to the point of gross hyperbole. The very nature and number of updates required in order to maintain Wizard's revenue stream, which relies on the constant release of new material, creates what I would refer to as a practical necessity.

Believe me; after 30+ years of RPGing I'm quite capable of developing a character with pen and paper. As Walking Dad said, I can't recall any game I've ever played that had anywhere near the level of errata that 4e does.

 

[Piratecat]

PaoloM has spelled out pretty well why they used Silverlight. They had knowledge of it, it works for content delivery and will facilitate their needs for future tools.

Oh, I understand why. I just think it was a bad and short-sighted choice. Using a notoriously fiddly environment that Microsoft is not updating/is distancing itself from, and one that doesn't come pre-installed, doesn't seem like a great choice for long-term viability.

HTML 5 et al would have taken longer. As for ipads/iphones, it's apple's fault that it doesn't work on them as there's no hardware reason.

Here you bring up a valid point that I completely reject! As a consumer I don't give a darn whose fault it is; I want from WotC a product that will work on my iphone and ipad. I don't care in the least what Apple's policy is, I care that WotC can and should create a product that works on these near-ubiquitous mobile devices. Even with the likely iPad product coming, I find some of their business choices frustrating.

Can't wait to see the new builder, though. We'll see how it is, and I'm excited and hoping for the best. After all, doesn't Netflix Instant Streaming use Silverlight?