Disappointed D&D Insider Customer

[whearp]

• You start selling PDF versions of your books again. I’d ultimately like to see you sell a physical book and the PDF together for one price, or possible a small amount more ($5 or less) than just the physical product. I like to read a physical book when going cover to cover, but like the PDF when referencing at the table. Honestly, if I buy the physical book, the PDF version costs pennies to distribute to me as I’ve paid for the content in other form.

I understand and feel for your frustration even though I am perfectly happy with my DDI subscription and look forward to the new web tools, but I have to jump in and put in my thoughts at this point.

I'm worried I'm getting ready to get myself in a lot of trouble by saying this, but I agree with WotC's decision to stop selling PDF versions of the books. ~Ducks~
The problem here is that there still isn't, well, any way to ensure the security of digital handbooks. They day after release of a books digitally it would be widely available on 4chan, rapidfind, torrents and friendly ftp servers everywhere. I know at least a dozen or two cheapskate slacker gamers that would download the entire catalog, not ever buy a single pay product, and never bat an eyelash. That's not cool. The D&D team deserves to get paid for the product they are creating.

Now I know that the present lack of native PDF books hasn't stopped pirating, but at least the pirated PDFs of the newer books are bulky, blurry scans.

I know this is probably an unpopular sentiment, but I believe that WotC is a good organization. I don't think they are swimming in pools of our money on yachts. I want DDI to improve, but not at the expense of the core pen and paper game. We just need to hang in there and trust that they will do their best.

 

[renau1g]

2 ipads floating around the players.

The only crutch we have is printed Char Sheets, and now that will be irrelevant as we can just browse from the one site. Brilliant.

The ipads won't be able to read the CS's, in case you missed it, as they're built in Torchlight or something like that.

To OP: I did not read you open letter, I really do not care but:

Ya know, I am getting a little tired of people posting open letters to WoTC here, go to WoTC's boards and post them there.

Then don't read them. It was pretty obvious from the thread title what the OP was posting. It wasn't like he said, I got the new Essentials book, then posted this letter instead. Next time you don't feel like reading about it, don't click on it.

 

[renau1g]

I'm worried I'm getting ready to get myself in a lot of trouble by saying this, but I agree with WotC's decision to stop selling PDF versions of the books. ~Ducks~
The problem here is that there still isn't, well, any way to ensure the security of digital handbooks. They day after release of a books digitally it would be widely available on 4chan, rapidfind, torrents and friendly ftp servers everywhere. I know at least a dozen or two cheapskate slacker gamers that would download the entire catalog, not ever buy a single pay product, and never bat an eyelash. That's not cool. The D&D team deserves to get paid for the product they are creating.

They're still there as you mentioned and those who actually pirate the stuff are still pirating it. With them being less useful, those "cheapskates" aren't going to suddenly go out and buy dozens of splat books. So really, there's no benefit to WotC with this. Either way their net revenue is $0. Paizo offers it with their subscription model (free PDF with physical book) and guess what? You can grab it off the torrent sites....but yet amazingly I know many, many people who buy their products still... crazy I know.

I also don't think they're swimming in gold like Scrooge McDuck or anything, in fact I think they're the opposite, probably scraping by as hobby's and entertainment are usually the first part of your discretionary income cut during tough economic times (and with 10% unemployment in USA them's be tough times). I'm sure Hasbro is leaning hard to produce more with less, and I certainly sympathize with them.

 

[Brax]

There are already 7 threads on the first page of the 4e board alone on the subject of DDI on all of them the majority of the posts since the announcement are complaints and open letters similar to your one. You could have tacked it on there.
And if all you wanted was the reaction of ENWorld to the news you could have read them.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I said "I posted it here to get an idea of what this smaller, more reasonable [community] thinks of what I said and how I said it." I'm interested in the reaction to my specific letter (selfish, I know) from THIS forum.

 

[Brax]

I understand and feel for your frustration even though I am perfectly happy with my DDI subscription and look forward to the new web tools, but I have to jump in and put in my thoughts at this point.

I'm worried I'm getting ready to get myself in a lot of trouble by saying this, but I agree with WotC's decision to stop selling PDF versions of the books. ~Ducks~
The problem here is that there still isn't, well, any way to ensure the security of digital handbooks. They day after release of a books digitally it would be widely available on 4chan, rapidfind, torrents and friendly ftp servers everywhere. I know at least a dozen or two cheapskate slacker gamers that would download the entire catalog, not ever buy a single pay product, and never bat an eyelash. That's not cool. The D&D team deserves to get paid for the product they are creating.

Now I know that the present lack of native PDF books hasn't stopped pirating, but at least the pirated PDFs of the newer books are bulky, blurry scans.

I know this is probably an unpopular sentiment, but I believe that WotC is a good organization. I don't think they are swimming in pools of our money on yachts. I want DDI to improve, but not at the expense of the core pen and paper game. We just need to hang in there and trust that they will do their best.

Thanks for speaking up, and I'm glad that DDI is meeting your needs. I can really only speak for myself here, obviously. I also love what WotC has done with the latest edition game wise, just not on the DDI end (and only more so recently). I am also looking forward to the new unreleased tools, but am not willing to pay them for those future tools before they are out and useful to me, that's all. I wanted them to know why specifically and what they can do to get more of my money. Hopefully, I was being reasonable and coherent.

As far as piracy goes, I really don't care what other people / deadbeats are doing. I want to buy PDFs at a reasonable additional cost to the hardback books. I am willing to pay them for it, and they can choose to take my money or get nothing from me.

As you said, stopping the PDF sales has not slowed down piracy; all it means is a legitimate customer (me) can't get what he wants anymore. I think the move was also about preventing some stores from ripping off WotC by selling download tokens multiple times, and other shenanigans and not (or not just) piracy.

The creative minds at WotC do deserve to get paid, and I want to do that. The answer is to sell me the products I want rather than try to prevent imaginary 'lost sales' (meaning no pirate will buy that stuff anyways, so if they nab it, you weren't going to make that money). The only way to stop piracy is to make a better product: more features, like an on-line account *cough*DDI*cough* that records your purchases for additional downloading later if something happens to your original copy. Possibly an updated copy with errata included automatically every time there is a change. Make it more convenient than piracy and more people will want it.

 

[MrGrenadine]

Ya know, I am getting a little tired of people posting open letters to WoTC here, (etc...)

I understand if you don't want to read posts like this, but reading posts here is still entirely voluntary.

Just sayin'.

 

[Piratecat]

Yup. If you don't want to read a thread, it's pretty easy to click to the next one!

 

[DEFCON 1]

Okay Brax... you were asking for the ENWorld community's response to your letter that you sent to Wizards of the Coast. I am a member of said community, and here are my thoughts about what you included.

Wizards of the Coast Customer Service:

I am writing this to inform you of why I am not continuing my subscription to D&D Insider. I suspect your department is being inundated with this sort of thing, and hope that you will read this letter and act upon, or pass along the information here within.

Here is a brief summary of what kind of customer I am. I have played D&D since about 1981. In that time I’ve played D&D (Basic, Expert, Master, Immortals), AD&D, 2nd Edition AD&D (including the revisions with Player’s Option and the like), 3rd Edition D&D, 3.5, and now 4th Edition D&D. Of the products that your company has been responsible for (3rd Edition and on), I estimate I purchased a total of $1500 worth of books, miniatures, software, and online services from you. This includes two years worth of the D&D Insider subscription paid in advance.

It is cool that you have been and continue to be an avid D&D player, and that you have spent almost 30 years with the game. That being said... the fact that you've spent $1500 on D&D products has no impact on anything WotC does in the future. You chose to spend money in the past on certain items... you received those items. That in no way entitles you to anything WotC might produce in the future. Just because you've been a "good customer" does not put your desires ahead or behind anyone elses.

I love this game. I look forward to meeting with my friends every week to play. The most recent edition, 4th, is the most fun yet to play (at least tactically). The exceptions based rules, however, make it very difficult to make and maintain a character. There are so many options and interdependencies that playing only with pen and paper became too much of a hassle for me. Your character builder became indispensable for me.

This is neither WotC's problem, nor WotC's fault. You made the personal choice to include all of these options from all these books in your D&D game. You cannot hold WotC responsible because you now feel the need to HAVE to use the Character Builder to manage your characters. Nobody can. You could easily play the game with just Player's Handbook I and no errata (just like everyone did 2 years ago when the game was first produced). The fact that you choose NOT to do that does not put any onus back onto WotC to make it easier for you to play that way.

Over the last two years, however, the subscription to DDI has lost its appeal. After some amazing software preview videos, and a few months of amazing Dragon and Dungeon magazine content, I figured I would spring for a whole year of the DDI service, figuring that it was worth the money despite my strong aversion to the software-as-a-subscription model of pricing. I can’t stress how much I dislike that business model. As a customer, I like to own things, not rent or lease them. When it was announced that pricing was going up, seeing how good the first tools turned out, I signed up for another year to get the best bang for my buck, so to speak.

Again... if you chose to go against your better instincts and signed up for DDI even though you dislike the business model... that's NOT WotC's fault. You made a choice to sublimate your dislike for "renting" software because you realized that what you were getting for your money was better than your emotional feelings towards the issue.

And we as human beings make these decisions every single day. I might not like to pay for cable channels I don't actually want... but as my service is not an a-la carte service but rather a tiered service... I make the choice to pay my tier and get Oxygen, when all I really want is Discovery and Comedy Central.

In those two years, your DDI team disappointed me several times. No virtual tabletop, no 3d character visualizer (not as big of a deal, but needed for a good VTT), no campaign manager, several oddly missing features to the existing character builder (not all feats and items implemented fully, house rules not interacting with the character’s statistics, incomplete tracking of conditions and current state of the character), several delays, and declining content in the magazines.

Again... most of this is not WotC's fault. You set up expectations in your mind of what WotC should be giving you... and then became disappointed when they didn't. But they shouldn't be giving you anything. They give you what they give you. And you make the choice to pay for it. You chose to pay for your second year's subscription despite already knowing that there was not (nor going to be at the time) a VTT, a campaign manager, house rule functionality in the CB, or a visualizer. But you chose to sign up anyway.

The only things you mention that *are* WotC's fault are the delays and the declining content in the magazines. And for this, yes, you are within your right to get annoyed, and well within your right to complain about it and/or ask for a refund. I might personally think that neither issue is worth getting that upset about... but you are free to do what you like.

The time when folks like me post onto these threads in response to the annoyance though, is when the poster's anger goes so far over the top that they act like WotC's come over to their house and kicked their dog... or they bring up things from the past (like you just did above) that have no place in the specific argument because those things aren't WotC's problem and have no bearing on the argument in question.

I own so many books, that they stopped fitting on the table after the first year of 4th edition, so I switched to using a laptop and tracking everything with that. I currently use a few purchased PDFs, the compendium, the character builder, and iplay4e to play at the table. With the shortcomings of the current character builder, I needed to make my own custom dice rolls using Crystal Ball Lite. The table is much less cluttered now with everything electronic.

Again... not WotC's problem, not WotC's fault, and nothing WotC has to respond or justify to you.

The changes announced in the new version of the character builder concern me, and frankly I don’t have any faith left in your software division to implement all of the missing features in a timely manner if ever.

This is the kind of hyperbole that drives me crazy, and is what causes people like myself to respond to these threads to offer a little perspective.

In the time WotC has been updating the Character Builder, I think they were late just one time prior to the September Dark Sun / Essentials fallout. So where were your letters to WotC at all those other months where you were telling them that you had no faith in the software division? My guess is... you didn't write those letters, because all those other months you were happy with their implementation of the features in a timely manner. If you weren't happy, you wouldn't have signed up for a second year's subscription.

So to NOW come out and say you have no faith that they can do the job ever again... is in my opinion disingenuous. You have every right to be annoyed with these past two months of the DS/Essentials debacle... but these two months should not and do not wipe away the two years of them doing the job correctly and on time. And I think you know that. But to write othewise is to use hyperbole in order to make your letter "stand out" by implying that you're more angry than the average person writing in to complain. But guess what? That's just not true.

My subscription is up as of 11/7, and I won’t be renewing. WotC won’t see any more of my money until one or more of the following happen, in order of my personal preference:

• You release a working virtual tabletop.
• The new character builder is improved to the point where I can play with my laptop at our real table without using any physical books or paper. This would mean that I can use only the character builder, or some combination of it plus 3rd party sites (like iplay4e). Being able to export a character and manipulate it outside of your service will be needed, since you won’t be able to think of every want the community has.
• You start selling PDF versions of your books again. I’d ultimately like to see you sell a physical book and the PDF together for one price, or possible a small amount more ($5 or less) than just the physical product. I like to read a physical book when going cover to cover, but like the PDF when referencing at the table. Honestly, if I buy the physical book, the PDF version costs pennies to distribute to me as I’ve paid for the content in other form.
• The Dragon and Dungeon content quality improves to what it was before.
• You release a campaign manager.
• You finish the monster builder.

What you're basically trying to do here is "blackmail" WotC into giving you what you want, regardless of how feasible or useful it might be. You won't give them their subscription money until they give in to your demands. Which, in my opinion, is the highest level of silliness.

Your demands could just as easily be the following:

>>WotC won’t see any more of my money until one or more of the following happen, in order of my personal preference:

• You release all hardcover books with holograms on the front.
• The new character builder be able to talk to me, and I to it.
• You start selling D&D miniatures at 9 inch sizes because I want to play at a bigger scale than at 1".
• The Dragon and Dungeon magazines need to be printed again and available on the shelves of my local Waldenbooks.
• You release a personal automated Dungeon Master.
• You finish every book you're ever going to produce and get them into the CB and Monster Builder right now, so I can have all the info I'm ever going to get as soon as I sign up.

You see how silly that is? The only reason why you might think your list has more weight, is because it includes things that WotC had thought about or had done at a previous point in time. But as they have since said on multiple occasions that those things WEREN'T happening... your list is right now just as unlikely to occur as mine. But the fact you and other people keep clinging to these ideas and try to use them as ammo to force WotC's hand... is absolutely ridiculous. Especially considering WotC's unspoken response is and always will be "If that's really what you have to have to be an Insider Customer... don't let the door hit you on the way out."

******

There you go. There's one community member's response to your letter. I hope it gave you what you were looking for.

All the best,

DEFCON 1

 

[renau1g]

Again... most of this is not WotC's fault. You set up expectations in your mind of what WotC should be giving you... and then became disappointed when they didn't. But they shouldn't be giving you anything. They give you what they give you. And you make the choice to pay for it. You chose to pay for your second year's subscription despite already knowing that there was not (nor going to be at the time) a VTT, a campaign manager, house rule functionality in the CB, or a visualizer. But you chose to sign up anyway.

The only things you mention that *are* WotC's fault are the delays and the declining content in the magazines. And for this, yes, you are within your right to get annoyed, and well within your right to complain about it and/or ask for a refund. I might personally think that neither issue is worth getting that upset about... but you are free to do what you like.

The only thing I disagree with is this. WotC set up what they were going to provide. They (or rather their supplier) didn't deliver. ENd of the day though that software house didn't hype up that stuff at the Cons and in their PHB and the DMG, but WotC did. You (as a business) are responsible for your suppliers. If Ford's cars start setting on fire, everyone blames Ford right? Even if the problem was with the wiring gotten from supplier X, you are responsible. Even in the early days of DDI, they had the upcoming features listed, like VTT, visualizer, etc. So you really can't blame people for having those expectations. Now, the second year sub...yeah they promised new tools way back in April last year IIRC after the survey was completed (which had the Campaign Management tools as #1) but nothing's come of that. I never got my hopes up and was quite happy with the CB.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Seems fair.

If they don´t improve the utility of the character builder until 07/11 (I hope you meant July 2011 i won´t renew my subscrition too.)

And I hope they get the localization issue fixed until 07/11/2010^^