What is arcane magic?

[tuxgeo]

Maybe a silly question but what the heck is arcane magic?
Other types of magic/powers/whatever make sense --
divine/primal magic can be explained by gods and spirits...
psionics can be explained by latent powers of the brain...

So what is arcane magic then? How to make sense out of a spell? Or do I just have too much free time?...

First of all, you simply don't "make sense out of a spell" -- in fact, wizards do that all the time: they use arcane magic without making sense out of it.

In fact, that's the main part of what makes arcane magic be "arcane" in the first place: nobody who is living (or undead) really understands it deeply.

This is because arcane magic is so recondite that even when you study it for decades, some of the implications continue to elude you. This affects all mortals, and perhaps even some of the gods (to some extent). (Not that the gods would ever admit to not understanding it; but if they didn't understand it, they therefore wouldn't know that they didn't understand it.)

It's somewhat related to "arc," as in the "arc of the covenant," or "Noah's Arc": an "arc" is a container for holding something. Arcane magic, then: it is as though the magic is still inside a container, safe from your prying eyes, and from everybody else's prying eyes: recondite enough that nobody living (or undead) ever gets to see the whole truth of it.

Aside from that, arcane magic deals with (but is not identical to) the figurative chains and levers and pulleys and counterweights that make up the way the world works. Using arcane magic, therefore, is "messing with the works"; and if you do it wrongly, the Law of Unintended Consequences will apply grievously -- if not to you, then to some other poor schmuck (or some billions of) somewhere else.

That is one of the reasons for people's long-abiding mistrust of arcane magic: too much can go wrong. Divine magic, on the other hand, produces fewer unintended consequences, because the gods are better at using the raw energies and correspondences of the multiverse than lesser beings are.

 

[Merkuri]

Aside from that, arcane magic deals with (but is not identical to) the figurative chains and levers and pulleys and counterweights that make up the way the world works. Using arcane magic, therefore, is "messing with the works"; and if you do it wrongly, the Law of Unintended Consequences will apply grievously -- if not to you, then to some other poor schmuck (or some billions of) somewhere else.

I like that metaphor. It's like the universe is a car and an arcane wizard is someone who reaches under the steering wheel, yanks out some wires, and starts it without the key. Wizards are reality hackers.

 

[prosfilaes]

This is when magic turns to science for me. If action A plus words B always equal effect C then it's just another facet of the universe that can be studied using the scientific method. At that point, magic is no longer supernatural, it's just natural.
[...]

Once you understand why something works, the magic is gone.

On one hand, if magic is cajoling the spirits that inhabit everything to do your bidding, I fail to see how it turns into science. Or if, as in Mage, magic is imposing your willing on consensual reality. If you drop the scientific aspects, it won't see so scientific.

On the other, the Power Gamer's 3.5 Wizard Strategy Guide reminds us that an empowered burning hands, at caster level 5, does an average of 26.25 HP damage, but a maximized burning hands takes caster 7 and does only 30 HP damage. Ooh, mysterious and magical! D&D, and most other RPG magical systems, don't come off as very wondrous in the first place.

 

[Merkuri]

On one hand, if magic is cajoling the spirits that inhabit everything to do your bidding, I fail to see how it turns into science. Or if, as in Mage, magic is imposing your willing on consensual reality. If you drop the scientific aspects, it won't see so scientific.

It really depends on how much detail you get into. Just saying, "Magic is talking to the spirits that inhabit everything," isn't very sciency, true, but if you start detailing the types of spirits, what offerings and words you need to cajole each one, and what you get when you cajole them, how is that any different than identifying different elements in the periodic table?

Science is the act of discovering and measuring things. If you can count it, measure it, or weigh it, then it's science.

Magic is often defined as supernatural, outside of the laws of nature. But if there's a spirit that inhabits everything, and that spirit can be enticed to obey your wishes, what makes that outside the laws of nature? Don't the laws of nature include that spirit? I mean, the spirit is part of the world, after all.

I guess I'm just saying that if you think about magic too hard you realize it's not magic, it's just the way the world works.

Ooh, mysterious and magical! D&D, and most other RPG magical systems, don't come off as very wondrous in the first place.

Did anyone ever say that they did?

I do, however, like some concepts I've heard about D&D magic, like the fact that the gestures and words used to cast a spell may change each time you cast it, or that the words written on a magical scroll are unreadable due to their very nature, and you don't so much read it as study it carefully to figure out what spell is written on it. Things that make magic unpredictable make it more mysterious.

At the same time, D&D is a game, and games have rules, so by definition magic used in D&D must have rules. That's just a fact of life.

 

[prosfilaes]

It really depends on how much detail you get into. Just saying, "Magic is talking to the spirits that inhabit everything," isn't very sciency, true, but if you start detailing the types of spirits, what offerings and words you need to cajole each one, and what you get when you cajole them, how is that any different than identifying different elements in the periodic table?

But what says you can formulate that way? In the real world, how do you cajole a human, and what can she give you? As anyone can tell you, that depends on the person--and even breaking them down into groups doesn't help much--and all sorts of social cues, right on down to unmeasurables as whether she got up on the wrong side of the bed.

Science is the act of discovering and measuring things. If you can count it, measure it, or weigh it, then it's science.

But there's a reason physics is the archetypical science, and economics is called the dismal science. Some things aren't quantified and mathematically processed nearly as easy as others.

Magic is often defined as supernatural, outside of the laws of nature. But if there's a spirit that inhabits everything, and that spirit can be enticed to obey your wishes, what makes that outside the laws of nature? Don't the laws of nature include that spirit? I mean, the spirit is part of the world, after all.

If you perceive the world through the lens of science, then of course everything falls under that definition. I'm sure most real world animists would object to that definition; the spirit world is an inherent part of nature to them.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

I know I'm saying the same thing over and over but what are "right words, symbols, formulae"?

I can see that arcane magic is like a science, and that you are directly accessing the power of the universe, but why would a special word or symbol help you in this? Why does gesture A + word B make a fireball (or whatever)?

And I know that its a game and all you need to say is "hey its magic!"
I just got to thinking if magic did really work, how would it work?

Well maybe I'm wrong here for taking it into an Anime/Manga example; but in Full Metal Alchemist everything they do with Circles to most common people LOOKS like magic, but they repeatedly remind lay people that it is a science. (Even though it basically is Functional Magic.)

Whether using Alchemy or Alkehesty in the setting, it involves channeling energy and shaping or directing from the earth or from a source and using the circle to (a symbol) that can be simply drawn in chalk, blood, or written on the body in tattoo or even carved/scratched into material and using that to change something. Activating the circle involves clapping your hands once, and then making physical contact with it. The EXACT details of how a circle works or what elements of the design do what is never actually discussed, but some symbology such as specifc symbols for the sun, god, and other things have ocassionally come up.

Still, it obeys laws of conservation/mass densisty unless you use human souls which lets you appear to make something 'out of nothing' or transmute any material into ANY other material, not just similar ones. Those who have performef the hubris of human transmutation have seen "Truth" -and though they lose a part of their body in the process, they gain an almost "Arcane" or intrinsic, unexpressable secret knowledge that lets them perform Alchemy without a circle simply by clapping their hands and using their force of will. Some circles have specific purposes, but many transmutations can be performed with just one so it seems to me that some "mental" effort is still involved.

In Naruto the source of power for "ninja magic" or "jutsu" is personal, bodily and spiritual "chakra". The hand seals/signs they use shape and concentrate that energy in a specific way to result in a specific effect. Also in Naruto are Blood Seals which are tattooed on the body or written on Scrolls, and then marked with blood, and activated with further hand seals.

Basically in similar fashion, this is why I think in fantasy settings, why symbols and gestures function in magic, it involves drawing energy into your body or into drawings and shaping/directing it with either on or both. IIRC in Complete Arcane there is a chapter whose opening pictures show some arcane somatic components, and they make me think of Naruto's hand seals.

EDIT:
My bad, its in Spell Compendium; Spell Lists (Part 2). My table biched at me once when I was playing my sorc and randomly did a fast string of Naruto Seals (I'm a nerd) -but THATS what they look like to me! Albeit to be fair, somatic gestures probably involve a fair amount of arm waving since armor gets in the way. But the fact you can IDENTIFY a spell by its somatic compants obviously means that each spell has its own which MAY be TOTALLY UNIQUE to that spell, or else as in Naruto, there is a "set" gestures, used in varying combinations.

On a side note for those of you who watch Last Airbender series, all their martial arts moves in reguards to "bending" elements are basically full body somatic gestures.

It should also be NOTED that Arcane Verbal Components (its mentioned SOMEWHERE; IDR) that they are NOT and are NEVER mistaken for intelligble speech. These sounds essentially do the same thing as somatic components (In contrast, at least IMC divine spells may invoke prayers in various languages). I will also call attention to various mythology where god or gods "spoke" the universe into existence. In this case I would look at the universe as a kind of computer perhaps, in which case a special word or command might exist (although simply knowlede of the word/sound is probably not enough by itself, there's probably a great deal of mental effort involved, and high ability scores that normal Farmer Joe doesnt have).

Focus components aid in focusing and channeling arcane power, while material components are consumed and aid in materializing the effect.

 

[cattoy]

In the context of D&D, Arcane Magic is:

A power that gradually saps your physical life force in exchange for a tappable reserve of 'energy' that can be used to bend the laws of physics over a table like a five copper whore.

Entirely lacking in moral structure or direction. Divine magic cares greatly what you do with it, arcane magic - not so much. The only real goal in learning arcane magic is using it to get better at it.

The ultimate measure of power at the high end. An epic wizard can change the course of rivers, raise or lower mountains, alter the world. An epic fighter can hit things really hard. (and typically relies heavily on equipment enchanted by, you guessed it, a wizard)

 

[Dausuul]

But what says you can formulate that way? In the real world, how do you cajole a human, and what can she give you? As anyone can tell you, that depends on the person--and even breaking them down into groups doesn't help much--and all sorts of social cues, right on down to unmeasurables as whether she got up on the wrong side of the bed.

I must spread some XP around before giving it to prosfilaes again. Despite what purveyors of books like "The Rules" and "The Game" would have you believe, human interaction is not reducible to a simple set of rules, and there's no reason to believe that interacting with arcane spirits would be any less complex.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

I must spread some XP around before giving it to prosfilaes again. Despite what purveyors of books like "The Rules" and "The Game" would have you believe, human interaction is not reducible to a simple set of rules, and there's no reason to believe that interacting with arcane spirits would be any less complex.

But the whole cajoling spirits thing sounds more like a Druid Deal by d&d standards, doesnt it?

 

[Dausuul]

But the whole cajoling spirits thing sounds more like a Druid Deal by d&d standards, doesnt it?

Depends on the spirit in question. Primal spirit of the oak tree--yeah, that's a druid thing. Orcus, Demon Prince of Undeath--not so much.