Thoughts on the edition treadmill

[WizarDru]

Concerning the Call of Chthulu Model; the core rules has had the following editions:

Call of Cthulhu, 1st Edition (1981)
Call of Cthulhu Designer's Edition (1982)
Call of Cthulhu, 2nd Edition (1983)
Call of Cthulhu, 3rd Edition (1986)
Call of Cthulhu, 4th Edition (1989)
Call of Cthulhu, 5th Edition (1992)
Call of Cthulhu 5.5 (1998)
Call of Cthulhu 5.6 (2000)
Call of Cthulhu 20th anniversary edition (2001)
Call of Cthulhu Miskatonic University edition (2001)
Call of Cthulhu, 6th Edition (2004)
Call of Cthulhu 25th anniversary edition (2006)

In addition, the following editions were published:

Delta Green - 1997
CoC d20 - 2001
Delta Green d20 - 2007
Trail of Chthulu (GUMSHOE) - 2008
Shadows of Chthulu (True20) - 2008
Realms of Cthulu (Savage Worlds) - 2009

Not much change from edition to edition, but they certainly did keep publishing them.

 

[fanboy2000]

First, a nitpick: Monopoly has multiple editions, it's true. But it bears keeping in mind that many 'editions' of Monopoly are UNLICENSED. Monopoly was developed in the Public Domain and while there was some controversy, there was a IP court case that eventually determined that while Parker Brothers had the rights to the specific version they were publishing, that much of the material was not copyrightable. Hence, you can published your own '-opoly' game, as long as you don't use the exact elements or name of Monopoly. Which isn't to say that alternate versions of Monopoly haven't been tried.

I'm going to nitpick your nitpick. There are, literally, dozens of Monopoly branded Monopoly games. In fact, USAopoly has been putting out LICENSED Monopoly for 16 years. Their site says they've put out over a hundred. On top of that, they've expanded into other board games as well.

So, while you are right that there are unlicensed versions of Monopoly, that Hasbro is in fact in the business of licensing the name and game mechanics to companies to make other variations. Generally speaking you can tell by looking at the game. If it's Xopoly, then it's unlicensed for the reasons you gave. If it's Monopoly: X, then it's licensed by Hasbro.

In addition to USAopoly, Winning Moves licences a lot of classic games from Hasbro and makes various versions. Often they'll put out a version that "classic" and a version that's "modern". Sometimes, they'll resurrect games from dead, like my favorite board game, Careers.

That said, the main board game doesn't typically change that much. Scrabble has lots of variations, but they still have just plain Scrabble. Same with Clue. Some games don't have a single main game, jut variations. Trivial Pursuit comes to mind.

I think people some times have a rosier picture of board games than is warranted. Many of the classics have been around a lot longer than the most popular brand name has. Chutes and Ladders, Battleship, Stratego, and Othello have all been around much longer than their brand names have. Also I think people underestimate the number regional variants and house rules in board games.

 

[Umbran]

Now to the OP's argument that these games don't change and D&D doesn't need to change, I guess that depends on what you mean by 'need'.

Quite. Needs cannot be gauged unless we know what the desired goal or state is. "Do we need X?" is a meaningless question that cannot be answered. We can only answer, "Do we need X to be able to do Y?"

All too frequently, defining Y is left out, or left to assumption. Define the state of the hobby you want to reach, and then maybe we can answer the question. Note that some folks would say that they don't care about the "state of the hobby" - it seems to me that finding new players depends on the state of the hobby, as does the existence of places like EN World.

 

[El Mahdi]

...Note that some folks would say that they don't care about the "state of the hobby" - it seems to me that finding new players depends on the state of the hobby, as does the existence of places like EN World.

Yes, you can likely find players more easily with a hobby that is healthy and robust (read, has a large pool of participating hobbyists), but I don't believe it depends upon the state of the hobby. I've gamed with as many people that I brought into the hobby (that had never previously played), as people that were already in the hobby or were brought in by Industry advertising (of which I can't imagine there are really very many). Most RPG advertising is aimed at people who already play RPG's, not people who don't or never have. I believe that bringing in new players has a lot more to do with how well individual players and DM's sell them on the game (and then treat them once thay get them to play), than how robust or healthy the industry or hobby is.

As for ENWorld, I really don't know if the state of the Industry would affect it or not. But, I would think that as long as people are playing RPG's (whether there's an Industry for it or not), then the hobby itself is doing just fine. And as long as there are people playing RPG's (whether they are being printed or not), then people will want to talk about RPG's. That's all ENWorld really is, a place where people who like RPG's come to talk about RPG's. Granted there is the "News" aspect of the site, but even if there was no Industry News, I think ENWorld would be okay. Perhaps smaller, but I believe ENWorld would still be here.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, you can likely find players more easily with a hobby that is healthy and robust (read, has a large pool of participating hobbyists), but I don't believe it depends upon the state of the hobby.

"Depends upon" does not equate to "is fully determined by".

How quickly you can get to your FLGS may, for example, depend upon how much gas you have in your car. That you could take public transportation doesn't mean it isn't faster to drive, if you can.

As for ENWorld, I really don't know if the state of the Industry would affect it or not.

Given that EN World was created by the increase of activity brought on by 3e, and that the release of 4e brought on an increase in activity and registrations (and paid accounts), I should think that the state of the industry surely has an impact.

 

[Mercurius]

Why is anyone talking about Monopoly at all? The analogy doesn't work.

 

[amerigoV]

Why is anyone talking about Monopoly at all? The analogy doesn't work.

Cuz everybody wants to be the race car. Thats all gaming is about, really.

 

[El Mahdi]

...How quickly you can get to your FLGS may, for example, depend upon how much gas you have in your car. That you could take public transportation doesn't mean it isn't faster to drive, if you can...

Then in this example, how quickly you can get to your FLGS does not depend upon how much gas is in your car. There are multiple factors influencing this, but none dependent upon anything other than the general need for locomotion in any form. However, the operation of my car does depend upon gasoline. Without it, it ceases to function entirely.

"...it seems to me that finding new players depends on the state of the hobby, as does the existence of places like EN World."

I guess we are just using different definitions of "depends". By definition "depend" means "relies upon", "is sustained by", or "as a cause of existence or a necessary condition" - all of which I don't believe are true for the hobby. The Hobby and ENWorld both rely upon and are sustained by people. Of which I believe that at least some of those people, even if there was no more RPG industry, would still play RPG's - thus keeping the hobby alive and this site able to continue. Even if in a diminished form.

As far as the "state of the hobby", I believe we are talking about two different things. Two things that influence eachother, with only one depending upon the other. Those two things are "the Hobby itself", and "the RPG Industry". As long as there is just one person still wanting to play RPG's, then the Hobby is alive and has the potential to bring in new players (though likely to be more difficult), independent of an RPG Industry. I just don't believe it follows that the hobby cannot survive without the industry. However, the Industry is dependent upon the Hobby for continued existence. If the Hobby ceases to exist, the Industry does also.

Impact? Absolutely

Dependence? I don't believe so.

"...it seems to me that finding new players is impacted by the state of the hobby, as is the extent and possible continued existence of places like EN World." - seems to me a more accurate statement.

 

[WheresMyD20]

Personally, I see it as about 90% profit motive, 10% evolution, but I'd like to hear other opinions on the issue.

I'm not sure about the percentages... and I hate to say it... but I think profit motive has been the key factor in the edition treadmill since the beginning. Improving the quality of the game (evolution) has always been a distant second. Let's not forget that there were lawsuits and ownership struggles over D&D as far back as the 70's. Half-baked rule expansions go back to at least the 1e Unearthed Arcana.

D&D is first and foremost a brand and a product. I think that there have been people in charge over the years that have genuinely cared about the game (and some that haven't). However, I think all of them, even Gygax, put the business first.

 

[GreyLord]

my post, I think it's the seventh one down from the start.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/296564-revenue-alternatives-new-editions.html

If you really want to read it all, that goes into an indepth explanation of why there is an edition treadmill, why it doesn't have to exist...why it does exist...and what would happen if RPG's...and hence D&D was treated like a boardgame.

Have a nice read.