Shuriken
-
Monstrous Menagerie II: Hordes & Heroes has a launch date! Mark your calendars for November 12th, 2024. 300+ more monsters for your D&D 2024, or Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition games, plus new horde rules and rules for heroic monsters who level up alongside you--whether they be allies, companions, or foes! Click here to follow on Kickstarter!
Essentials Assassin
- Thread starter Heir Raktus
- Start date
Shuriken
I gotta say, the really stripped down the play test version into this boring, semi-thought out, small scrap of features. It's a real shame that they had so many options in the play test and decided it should be boring. Oh well.... Back to playing the old assassin with an at-will teleport. At least do minimum damage in style!
Maybe 2 months of play testing wasn't the greatest. I couldn't even get my E-assassin to Paragon in that time frame.
Maybe 2 months of play testing wasn't the greatest. I couldn't even get my E-assassin to Paragon in that time frame.
Last edited:
UngeheuerLich
Legend
It does not look that bad...
I don´t like level 7, as it nearly gives nothing...
Poisons are still a coherent theme. Rather than having +1d8 on every weapon, +2d6 on all those d4 weapons they use would have been a more flavourful choice...
Garrotte strangle is a bit on the weak side, as fortitude of the assassin is a bit easy to break usually... the melee one should better invest in con or strength...
I don´t like level 7, as it nearly gives nothing...
Poisons are still a coherent theme. Rather than having +1d8 on every weapon, +2d6 on all those d4 weapons they use would have been a more flavourful choice...
Garrotte strangle is a bit on the weak side, as fortitude of the assassin is a bit easy to break usually... the melee one should better invest in con or strength...
Wednesday Boy
The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
I didn't get a chance to playtest the first version but are there any ideas why Deadly Strike isn't ranged also? It seems like League of Whispers eAssassins are going to miss out on some of their strikerness without it. (But I'm sure I'm overlooking something.)
It would be cool if they had notes in the margins to explain the changes from the playtest and the rationale behind it.
It would be cool if they had notes in the margins to explain the changes from the playtest and the rationale behind it.
pweent
Explorer
Quick Shot is only effective with hand crossbows. Not so great for assassins who want to be throwing daggers or shuriken. Shuriken in particular are strongly nerfed between the removal of Unerring Shuriken and the modifications to Attack Finesse.
It would indeed be great to see some editorial content on the reasoning behind the changes. It certainly seems they felt ranged assassins were too effective.
WalterKovacs
First Post
The general essential concept seems to be that leaders and defenders are melee, controllers are ranged, and strikers are mostly melee but with some ranged options.
A slayer still gets the Dex bonus with a bow (and has proficiency with it, not to mention at least ok Dex to use it), but most other class features don't help. Similarly a scout has good dex, and can actually make use of some of the stances (since they are for both versions of the ranger) but doesn't get it's primary striker mechanic. The thief rogue can use ranged attacks, but needs to stay close to be able to use backstab. The hexblade gets daily implement powers, but still wants to be adjacent for it's boons, not to mention it's at-will and encounter powers.
So, for the assassin, even with the ranged build, you are primarily attacking with a melee weapon (although, you have 4 at-wills in all).
The guild choice mostly comes down to one choice, really. The bola takedown and unarmed throw are practically the same (both do min damage and knock prone) as are the poisoned dagger and precision dart (both deliver poison on a miss, or cause a -4 to the save against the poison on a hit).
So, really, the choice is between Garotte Strangle and Quick Shot, the latter being pretty useful (it let's you shift afterwards and can be used in closed quarters, although how often it will be better than just using a melee one hander is questionable. [I guess you still get the shift afterwards, or you could shoot someone other than the person adjacent to you].
As for Garotte Strangle ... it's very odd that they put Charisma as a secondary stat. True, some of the skills would be useful for an assassin, but outside of level 8's flawless disguise, and a few utility powers, there is little use for charisma for the Assassin. If anything, a solid constitution is probably the best bet, giving some extra hardiness and improving fortitude defense for grabbing.
It's a little dissappointing compared to the playtest, but it still has the daily poisons and the "one super encounter power", so it isn't all bad.
A slayer still gets the Dex bonus with a bow (and has proficiency with it, not to mention at least ok Dex to use it), but most other class features don't help. Similarly a scout has good dex, and can actually make use of some of the stances (since they are for both versions of the ranger) but doesn't get it's primary striker mechanic. The thief rogue can use ranged attacks, but needs to stay close to be able to use backstab. The hexblade gets daily implement powers, but still wants to be adjacent for it's boons, not to mention it's at-will and encounter powers.
So, for the assassin, even with the ranged build, you are primarily attacking with a melee weapon (although, you have 4 at-wills in all).
The guild choice mostly comes down to one choice, really. The bola takedown and unarmed throw are practically the same (both do min damage and knock prone) as are the poisoned dagger and precision dart (both deliver poison on a miss, or cause a -4 to the save against the poison on a hit).
So, really, the choice is between Garotte Strangle and Quick Shot, the latter being pretty useful (it let's you shift afterwards and can be used in closed quarters, although how often it will be better than just using a melee one hander is questionable. [I guess you still get the shift afterwards, or you could shoot someone other than the person adjacent to you].
As for Garotte Strangle ... it's very odd that they put Charisma as a secondary stat. True, some of the skills would be useful for an assassin, but outside of level 8's flawless disguise, and a few utility powers, there is little use for charisma for the Assassin. If anything, a solid constitution is probably the best bet, giving some extra hardiness and improving fortitude defense for grabbing.
It's a little dissappointing compared to the playtest, but it still has the daily poisons and the "one super encounter power", so it isn't all bad.
Reaper Steve
Explorer
I actually prefer the final version to the playtest one. I think the playtest version wasn't focused enough and it stepped all over the Rogue's toes.
A Rogue relies on mobility, an assassin benefits from it. Removing most of the attack & move powers (Kukri charge, Unerring Shuriken) from the Assassin gave that space back to the Rogue. An Assassin shouldn't be bouncing off the walls or tumbling all over the place; they are first and foremost deadly killers, not acrobats. An Assassin needs to time his attack so that his target can't attack him back. He doesn't have the durability of a 'front-line striker' and he also doesn't have the mobility of a mobile striker. Of course, you need neither if you leave your opponent dead, and I think the final version did a better job capturing this.
In my group, the playest assassin was a one-trick pony: unerring shuriken all the time--except the one time a monster engaged him and he did a quick swap to a hand crossbow to shoot & scoot.
Interestingly, not only did they do away with those Assassin powers, but they did away with those weapons for them. I love both of those weapons, but I'm glad they dumped them from the Assassin; doing so gave them back to the Rogue. My only upset is that I think an Assassin with shuriken would be a great ninja!
I don't like the guilds... it's a forced division. Like an earlier poster stated, it almost comes down to choosing between Garrote Strangle or Quick Shot. Would it be too much to let a character have both?
I'm also perplexed as to why they let Assassins be proficient with light shields or why an Assassin player would want one. To me, Versatile weapons are the providence of the Assassin due to Quick Swap. Use a two-handed for extra damage while retaining the flexibility to draw a hand crossbow for Quick Shot, do a quick Unarmed Throw, or draw a dagger or bola, all for free... no need to stow the versatile weapon first.
A Rogue relies on mobility, an assassin benefits from it. Removing most of the attack & move powers (Kukri charge, Unerring Shuriken) from the Assassin gave that space back to the Rogue. An Assassin shouldn't be bouncing off the walls or tumbling all over the place; they are first and foremost deadly killers, not acrobats. An Assassin needs to time his attack so that his target can't attack him back. He doesn't have the durability of a 'front-line striker' and he also doesn't have the mobility of a mobile striker. Of course, you need neither if you leave your opponent dead, and I think the final version did a better job capturing this.
In my group, the playest assassin was a one-trick pony: unerring shuriken all the time--except the one time a monster engaged him and he did a quick swap to a hand crossbow to shoot & scoot.
Interestingly, not only did they do away with those Assassin powers, but they did away with those weapons for them. I love both of those weapons, but I'm glad they dumped them from the Assassin; doing so gave them back to the Rogue. My only upset is that I think an Assassin with shuriken would be a great ninja!
I don't like the guilds... it's a forced division. Like an earlier poster stated, it almost comes down to choosing between Garrote Strangle or Quick Shot. Would it be too much to let a character have both?
I'm also perplexed as to why they let Assassins be proficient with light shields or why an Assassin player would want one. To me, Versatile weapons are the providence of the Assassin due to Quick Swap. Use a two-handed for extra damage while retaining the flexibility to draw a hand crossbow for Quick Shot, do a quick Unarmed Throw, or draw a dagger or bola, all for free... no need to stow the versatile weapon first.
Similar Threads
