Str Pal vs Chr Pal

[Ahrimon]

Is it just me or is the Chr Pal better at being a paladin than the str paladin? All of the paladins secondary effects are wisdom based, but DC and DS are based on chr. So a Str paladin has to choose between being able to actually do his job decently as a defender or get any secondary effects. The Chr paladin gets full defender punishment and all the cool secondary effects.

The more I play with the numbers the more the Str paladin feels like a gimped striker to me.

They should have made DC/DS Wis based. At least then a paladin player would have a clear choice of secondary role as either damage or leader.

I'm thinking about statting up a Chr paladin, but the old school gamer in me is fighting it kicking and screaming. (I'm a firm beleiver in Str/Dex for melee attacks)

 

[Nifft]

Pay your feat tax and take Mighty Challenge.

Wait, it's a Paladin. So instead, pay your feat tithe.

- - -

If you want an excellent Str-based Paladin, try a Half-Orc with both Mighty Challenge and Blessed Strength. Put an 8 in your Charisma and be happy.

Cheers, -- N

 

[FireLance]

Another alternative is to go Essentials and use the Cavalier paladin: it's Strength primary with Charisma for secondary effects.

If you're a big fan of divine challenge, do note that the Cavalier gets a defender aura instead, so it only affects unmarked adjacent enemies. However, the Cavalier punishment mechanic is an opportunity action (so it can be used more than once per round) that triggers when an enemy subject to your aura shifts or makes an attack that does not include you or an ally with a defender aura, and it still deals automatic damage. This makes a Cavalier very effective at defending against minions.

 

[Ahrimon]

I looked at the half-orc as the answer to my problems except the group I play in doesn't allow anything from dragon. (Decided before I joined)

I glanced at the Cavalier in the bookstore today. Do they get any type of LoH ability? I didn't know of I just missed it or if it was quasi built into the sacrifice cavalier only. But even the cavalier has the problem that many of the feat riders are wisdom based. It looked like a balance paladin. Although I freely admit that I didn't get to spend a whole lot of time looking through it.

Maybe my inner power-gamer just won't let me see the forrest through the trees.

 

[FireLance]

I looked at the half-orc as the answer to my problems except the group I play in doesn't allow anything from dragon. (Decided before I joined)

Um, the half-orc is from PH2.

I glanced at the Cavalier in the bookstore today. Do they get any type of LoH ability? I didn't know of I just missed it or if it was quasi built into the sacrifice cavalier only.

They get a 2nd-level daily utility that allows one creature to spend a healing surge and make a saving throw. The Cavalier of Sacrifice's ability to use his second wind as a minor action to benefit an ally is probably the closest that the Cavalier gets to a lay on hands ability. The Cavalier of Valor is definitely much less of a secondary leader than the "classic" 4E paladin.

But even the cavalier has the problem that many of the feat riders are wisdom based.

Which feat riders are these?

 

[Ahrimon]

Um, the half-orc is from PH2.

Which feat riders are these?

The feat to use str instead of chr for DS/DC is from dragon.

It's late and I'm drinking but off the top of my head the gain resist [wis mod] all every time you spend a surge feat.

 

[Mengu]

Strength paladins do more striking. Charisma paladins do more defending. That's really just the way it generally is. You can make corner cases for a radiant vulnerability exploiting charisma paladin that does more striking, or half-orc strength based paladin that does more defending, but those would not be the norm.

 

[Mallus]

I'm thinking about statting up a Chr paladin, but the old school gamer in me is fighting it kicking and screaming. (I'm a firm beleiver in Str/Dex for melee attacks)

Think of CHR as representing a god's grace (this would explain why the class once required a high CHR). Now think of beating the snot out of ogre not with the strength of your own arm, but with god's grace.

Fitting for a paladin, no?

4e STR paladins have improved, plus they have one of best Paragon Paths, ie Champion of Order. But as Mengu said, there are ways of making a CHR paladin into a pseudo-striker -- my paladin uses a kludge-y combination of two Domain Feats (Power of the Sun, Power of Arcane) and the White Lotus Riposte chain.

 

[aurance]

The feat to use str instead of chr for DS/DC is from dragon.

Naw, this is from Divine Power.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Is it just me or is the Chr Pal better at being a paladin than the str paladin? All of the paladins secondary effects are wisdom based, but DC and DS are based on chr. So a Str paladin has to choose between being able to actually do his job decently as a defender or get any secondary effects. The Chr paladin gets full defender punishment and all the cool secondary effects.

The more I play with the numbers the more the Str paladin feels like a gimped striker to me.

They should have made DC/DS Wis based. At least then a paladin player would have a clear choice of secondary role as either damage or leader.

I'm thinking about statting up a Chr paladin, but the old school gamer in me is fighting it kicking and screaming. (I'm a firm beleiver in Str/Dex for melee attacks)

I play a STR based paladin and currently have a 19 Str, 16 Wis and 16 Cha at 9th level. Optimizers probably have spasms thinking about such a build but the flexibility it gives me allowed my paladin to almost single-handedly save my party from a TPK last week. 3 uses of Lay on Hands (with the Lend Health & Toughness feats = 22hp per LoH!) and a divine challenge or two made sure I got the 3 dying party members on their feet again before the third death save was rolled. I am planning on getting Devoted Paladin (or whatever it is called - it allows any recipient of your LoH to gain extra hps equal to you Cha bonus). All this and I can still dish out 15+ points of damage with my battleaxe with at-will powers (or 40+ when I drop dailies). All in all I am very happy with my Str Paladin.