Essentials classes question

[occam]

We just started a 4e campaign using regular classes (not from Essentials) and we're already seeing power and condition overload. After reading a few recent threads here on epic tier play, and how crazy the power, condition, and combat complexity gets I thought that it might be a good idea to switch to Essentials only classes, hoping they were easier to play and generated less conditions and were less fiddly. I own the first Heroes of the F****** books but haven't read it yet.

My question is for folks who have read and understand the classes in both Essentials Heroes books:

• Are Essentials classes easier to play?
• Do Essentials classes generate less conditions than previous classes?
• Do Essentials classes have less powers/abilities than previous classes?

DMing this season of D&D Essentials, I've noticed a marked decrease in tracking of conditions, both save-ends and beginning/end-of-next-turn types. It's only been 1st and 2nd levels so far, so I can't speak to paragon/epic from experience, and monster choice certainly has something to do with it, but I'm spending far less mental energy tracking conditions than I have in 4e encounters past. Most of the time all I'm tracking is bloodied status.

 

[Thraug]

I had the new CB autobuild Essentials and regular L30 classes to see how many of each power they had. Here is what was generated:

----------------------------------------
Essentials Cleric
At-Wills: 4
Encounters: 8
Dailies: 13

Regular Cleric:
At-Wills: 4
Encounters: 11
Dailies: 8

----------------------------------------
Essentials Mage:
At-Wills: 8
Encounters: 21
Dailies: 28

Regular Wizard:
At-Wills: 6
Encounters: 12
Dailies: 15

----------------------------------------
Essentials Knight
At-Wills: 8
Encounters: 9
Dailies: 2

Regular Fighter:
At-Wills: 3
Encounters: 7
Dailies: 8
----------------------------------------

Hardly a scientific comparison, but still worth examining. I wasn't aware of the # of powers Essentials Mages get. Wow.

 

[Destil]

Hardly a scientific comparison, but still worth examining. I wasn't aware of the # of powers Essentials Mages get. Wow.

Due to them getting 'powers' instead of ritual access I believe.

 

[drothgery]

Due to them getting 'powers' instead of ritual access I believe.

And encounter powers joining utilities and dailies in the spellbook.

 

[SkidAce]

Don't understand...max is four dailies...

 

[fba827]

I wasn't aware of the # of powers Essentials Mages get. Wow.

Keep in mind that it's from the spellbook. they get double the number powers that you pick in the character builder as a way of filling out the spellbook. But you only prepare the 'normal' amount to use in any given day.

 

[Droogie128]

I like some of essentials. The martial characters are horrible, though. For me, anyway. Huge step backwards for them.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

This is exactly why I'm playing a Thief in my current game. I had been playing a paragon Warden; while the list of crazy abilities at my command was certainly welcome, I knew I was spending more time figuring out what I was going to pull out of my arsenal next and less time focusing on the story.

Remember the advice that, in a conversation, one should be listening while the other person is speaking, and not simply planning what to say next? Well, might we not apply that to RPG encounters? Maybe we would gain by watching attentively while our allies take their turns, instead of planning our own. From what I've seen, Essentials builds make that a bit easier.

 

[WalterKovacs]

In general:

The martial classes don't have to track resources as much (no daily, 1 repeated encounter power), but they have more at-will options than other classes, which means they have more options near the end of a fight and/or day than other classes do.

As others have pointed out, a lot of things that used to be tracked have been simplified. Mark becomes an aura, the fighter immediate interupt becomes an opportunity attack, the rogue's sneak attack becomes 1/turn instead of round, rituals aren't given to the mage/warpriest/etc ... but they are given extra utility powers that are equivalent to certain rituals.

In the case of controllers and leaders, they are given miss or effect lines for their encounter powers which, while it doesn't change the resource management issues, it does reduce the "miss and waste the encounter power" feeling that can often occur. With many of the other classes, the encounter powers are free actions which you choose to use when you know they'll work. So, while it's not necessarily a complexity issue ... it is nice to see encounter powers made to be less "miss and it's wasted".

As for dropping conditions ... the hunter ranger is particulary intersting in that, while it has no daily attack powers, it can slow (save ends) with an at-will and can daze or immobilize (save ends) with it's encounter power.

 

[Zhou Yu]

Another question that might be posed is "Are Essentials classes as fun/more fun to play than core classes?"

Having only actually played with Essentials characters, I have no basis for comparison. Someone else might be able to enlighten the curious on this point.

For me, as a player and a GM (of an online game, haven't GMed 4e of any sort at the table yet), Essentials is a good bit more fun to play.

On BOTH sides of the screen/character sheet.

And part of the problem, and this may be an unpopular opinion, is because the 'core' classes of 4e had far far too many Powers to choose from, and you could really screw up what you're supposed to do for the party. You can't perform your specified duty, because you took crappy Power X from Dragon or something, your other players won't like you so much. As a DM, trying to recall (or believe your players are telling the truth) all those powers is a nightmare.

But Essentials? Far more fun to play as or play with. Far easier for the GM, far easier for the players.

You wanna kill things? Just say, "I'm a Slayer (or Rogue, or Hexblade or the one striker ranger), and I got a huge axe! (or short sword or pact blade or whatever)" and your party goes, "Ah hah! Let's send that guy to kill the big guy there, while our Knight goes here to hold off the group of enemies while the Warpriest hangs out here cause he can get either of those in a Burst for Shield of Faith" or whatever.

Try doing that in 'core'. It's more of a mess. You can't say, "I'm a fighter" and have the assumed point of your build, and assumed group tactics be right there. You got to give out your entire build, why you chose that power over this one, etc etc. "I'm a Cleric" means you're either a healbot, or a buffer, or a HP booster, or...one of a dozen builds.

But a Warpriest? They can heal you, and they can make you more awesome at the same time. And that's all they need to do. And that's what your group knows you'll be good for.