Making superhero gear make sense (mostly Marvel related)

[Cyronax]

You, sir, have never tried to snap twisted silk. Ladies stockings, twisted into a cord, are amazingly strong.

Oh .... you mean in-character or out of character?


Actually .... give a tech-monkey hero-equivalent a full-round action and successful Search/Perception/Oggle check and why not turn lady's underthings into a viable garrote. Improvised weapons are cool, especially if dual-use.

 

[Janx]

From what I see, why not use M&M 3e or ICONS

Also, I hate the idea of a "Magic" Stat. It seems like it will be useless or crippling. Long ago I created a houseruled extension to Mekton Zeta and included a stat that dealt with using powers. Unfortunately, the following types of comments came up when I did so:

Player 1: "I want to play a 'Flying Brick'. Why do I need Magic? I'm just Tough and Strong and can fly. Why should I keep track of magic?"

Player 2: "I want to make a 'cheddar wizard'.... is there anyway to do it without wasting half my attribute points in Magic? Seriously, is there? My character needs to be smart, intuitive, and charismatic... but I don't want to die the first time I'm attacked since I don't have enough points to spend on resistance or constitution."

I agree, make Magic just another power. And its definitely a scenario where power in an area can have multiple uses.

natuirally, posting home brew game rules is going to get your rules picked at. It's also going to bring up the point of, this has been done and solved before by people who had a budget to play test.

Additionally, if you've got people who are hyper-rules averse, good luck. At some point, players kind of have to engage with game rules. Otherwise, you're going to be doing ALL of the work. And if that's the case, use a rules system that is already done, and hide the char sheets from the players.

M&M seems like a good ruleset. There's a few others to choose from that have some experience in this realm. Much less work.

 

[prosfilaes]

If I had someone who wanted to play the guy with a big pack of modern tools in a pseudo-medieval fantasy game, and I didn't allow it, would you say the problem was the fault of the way I run fantasy?

There are no modern tools in a pseudo-medieval world. That's not "play in genre", that's "you can't do that in this world". If you put forth the problem of carrying tools as an issue of encumbrance, it'll go over better then just making it a genre issue.

Why am I playing a game with someone who isn't on board with the kind of game I'm trying to run?

In the case of the OP, he's playing a game with his friends. If it matches my experience, who he plays with is less flexible then what he plays; he's got to do something everyone is going to be willing to play.

 

[Runestar]

Nothing much to add, though I happened to be reading this and just couldn't resist.

The 5 Most Impractical Aspects of Superhero Costumes | Cracked.com

 

[Jon_Dahl]

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I hope that my players will create characters with defensive powers. So far one of them has wanted to create so-called ”glass cannon”, with only all-out attack capabilities. I asked her: What happens when her character is shot to the back almost point-blank range? She said that the character will mostly likely die. This is the question I ask from player with a ”glass cannon” fantasies, and if the answer is acceptable, we move on. However, I’m NOT planning to get her shot in the back. I just make the name of the game clear.

And if my players receive my game poorly then I’ll be sad of course, but then we just have to play something else. I’m not a professional game designer, I have the privilige to suck. However, I do have lot of faith in my game. A lot.

Janx,

Hero Point are much better, ”Faith Points” was an abysmal translation.
And actually I have made some comparison/standard lists. For instance, you can’t kill anyone outright with less than a Good (Rank 4) level power. And you can get superman flying only at Master (Rank 6) level. Withstanding bullets get much easier at Master-level, but for rifles you need at least Grandmaster defensive power (Rank 7). But I don’t show these lists to my players, because the players just need to think what kind of powers they want and try to make the character sufficiently strong. After this I tell them what rank they get, which basically defines the cost to develop. Looking at pre-made lists will provoke munchinism, just like having a list of feats and thinking about builds or character trees or something really horrible like that. But I’ve got standards, really.

Relique du Madde,

If you knew my players, you wouldn’t suggest M&M. Please, you have to consider that my players get panicked with feats and skills and standard 3.5 D&D VERY easily. Understanding something like 5-foot step or calculating AC is extremely hard for them (”My fighter in heavy armor has AC 8”). If there is any requirement of understanding written text or calcuting 2+2, it will ruin the game. Really. This is why I don’t have any mathematics in this one at all. Janx already spoke about 1d6-damage. There is no damage dice, no AC or something highly sophisticated like this. Been there, done that
And yes, before you ask, all my players are above 20 years old.

Magic-stat is there because of the subability score Magic Resistance. I want all the natural defences in the same group, and in this case the group are the base ability scores (and the related subability scores). With Agility you dodge physical attacks, with Willpower (subability score of Intuition) you defend against mental attacks and Magic Resistance gives you the edge against sorcerers. For someone like ”flying brick” just leave it to 1 or 0. With those scores you can’t cast spells and you don’t have to keep track of anything related to magic. With ”flying bricks” I’m just interested about the subability score Magic Resistance (with defaults as the same as Magic score, but you are allowed to adjust it).
If Magic Resistance would be somewhere else, it would be less clear. For natural defenses, go to ability scores. It’s easy.

 

[ValhallaGH]

And if my players receive my game poorly then I’ll be sad of course, but then we just have to play something else. I’m not a professional game designer, I have the privilige to suck. However, I do have lot of faith in my game. A lot.

Cool! You know your group better than us, so I'll trust your judgement. And if they don't see the numbers then the numbers don't exist (for them).

Sounds like you know what they're getting into. Try to make sure they have fun.

(And Glass Cannon lady is one of the few characters that might decide to wear mundane body armor.)

Magic-stat is there because of the subability score Magic Resistance.

What's so special about magic that it gets it's own resistance stat?
Where's my Psychic Resistance? Elemental Resistance? Necrotic Resistance? Bee-swarm Resistance? Poison Resistance? Science Resistance? Blunt Trauma Resistance? Explosion Resistance?

Magic is just a description of how a character Does Stuff. The Stuff he does is exactly the same kind of stuff that all the others do, it just looks different. (Magic Shackles = Ice Breath; Created Shapes = Wrap a car around him; Soul Blasts = Eye Lasers; Telekinesis = Super-Strength; Flight = Flight; etc.) Magic is a description of super-power, not a distinct super power.

What you've said about it implies that magic will be a big "I Win" button unless you're fighting magic. Implying that only a mage can handle magical problems. Which flies in the face of all comic logic; yes, heroes generally face foes with a similar origin, power set, or power source, but they also face everyone else in the setting including the magic-villains, even if they themselves aren't in any way magical.


Good luck, and I hope that at least some of this discussion has been helpful.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

What's so special about magic that it gets it's own resistance stat?

What can I say, in my game, Magic is special. And you can always dodge a magic attack or withstand them mentally or physically (like in D&D), depending on the attack. To the grievance and blessing of sorcerers, there is also an additional way to thwart magical attacks. In case your dodge or unmagical defenses fail, there's always the Magic Resistance.

If Forge (rusty shaman with limited magic) casts a spell against Dr. Strange (sorcerer supreme), he doesn't have to do anything defend himself. His Magic Resistance is so superior, that no dodging or withstanding is necessary. He walks over the spell. If it would be Spiderman, he would have to rely on his other defenses which aren't so automatically successful. But Spidey is a hero, he wouldn't be embarassed or killed in a silly way.

And now some information about the campaign like I promised:
The game will start in October 2010, in Abu Dhabi. The crown prince of Abu Dhabi wants to create his own superhero team, and is willing to burn quite a sum of money for achieve that. From different corners of the world (and universe?) he has assembled a team of four (or three or five?) heroes. This team will work for him for three weeks, and after this the contract needs to be re-negotiated. Those heroes with noble heart are lured in by the fact that the prince will personally donate one million $ to charity by the end of 3-week contract. The ones with mercenary attitude are lured by $400k paycheck.

All characters receive authority (and a badge of course!) of special agents of the United Arab Emirates, with a license to kill (quickly or slowly). The prince will equip all heroes with ultramodern kevlar-thights (see the first pic in OP) and give them some gear that all are within the genre. Characters will also receive an advisor who will provide the heroes what they ask.

The first mission is to investigate why a team of Indian inspectors have disappeared in the almost-finished Al Hekma Tower of Dubai, a skyscraper 61 floors...

 

[Janx]

What can I say, in my game, Magic is special.

Well, each power is special. As Val suggests, design-wise it's a good idea to implement it consistently with the other powers.

Its also possible, based on your explanation to me about Faith points and your reference to Abu Dabai, that you're in a different culture than us (us as in American-like). That's cool. I'm just guessing here, but since you mentioned translating, your game is set in the middle east, that you're from a middle-eastern culture.

It's possible "Hero" does translate to "Faith" as in having. And that Magic has some special connotations for you culturally. Though it may also have some negative meaning as well (based on my understanding of western "Magic" and middle eastern culture.

But design-wise, its a good idea to model stuff symmetrically. Unless everybody has Magic (as everybody has something in the other aspects of the game), you'd be better advised to model Magic as another Power (or Power tree as I describe).

An energy blast from Cyclops is just as dodgeable as a spell blast from Dr. Strange (well, barring the attacker's skill level).

Though within the Magic category of powers, there may be resistance and shield spells/powers that give bonuses to resist these attacks.

As a designer of software (and armchair game designer), I see this all the time, where somebody insists their component is special and not the same as all the other subsystems. Whereas, I see it, and it can be treated the same as everything else.

Consider D&D 1e vs. 3e. Clearly 1e had a lot of unique subsystems to handle stuff. 3e took all that and made it all very symmetircal. The same design for swimming as for thief skills as for attack rolls. Technically, they could have modeled combat AS skill checks, but they didn't take it that far.

 

[Janx]

To JD's starting premise for his game:

The idea of a rich guy/organization having their own super hero team (ex. Rising Stars) is a good one.

In theory, they'd have a team for PR, as having a team would be very flashy and potentially discourage mundane attacks.

I think the Prince would bring in the team, as a show of force, to "defend" the final construction of the tower. Presumably because he's a major investor in it.

the tower has receieved some negative PR by organizations who see it as an example of the hubris of man.

So the early stage of the adventure would be some PR announcements and fly-by. A few mundane confrontations. Then the real trouble starts.

Thats where the group either faces powered opposition, or the mystery to be uncovered (ending in a powered confrontation).

Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Thats where the group either faces powered opposition, or the mystery to be uncovered (ending in a powered confrontation).

And that's one other key to supers- campaigns. Almost every single adventure has to have a super-powered battle. You can get away without such a fight about 3 out of 100 adventures; the other 97% of the time there has to be a super-something to punch out or it stops feeling like a supers-campaign. That doesn't mean it stops being a fun game (not at all), just that it stops being a supers game and becomes something else, with super powers.

And I still agree with Janx, regarding making Magic work just like everything else. Otherwise I want my 2-mile wide swarm of bees to need unique game mechanics to resist ;-).

Best of luck.