[WotC's recent insanity] I think I've Figured It Out

Trying to coddle and attract the elder set while neglecting the up-and-comers is a boneheaded business decision.
Which WotC has made, according to the rationale for new "editions".

Remember? The Cash Cow has already bought twice or three times all that "IP" invented in the 1970s-80s, so we've got no choice but to recycle it again in a form that makes C.C. feel obligated to pay out again in order to "keep up."

People who are not yet into WotC-D&D don't even know, much less care about "3.0 this" or "Bo9S that" ... any of the arcana that makes 3e or 4e so appealing (and the other not) to the initiates who are already steeped in it.

I didn't even know 3e existed until I happened to have some time to kill near a "comics & games" shop. Having stopped buying Official AD&D "product" in the 1990s, I did not recognize this stuff, either.

Goblins in D&D are green now? Why? A newbie would not even have the basis to wonder, never having known it to be otherwise!
 

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I may be wrong, but my guess is that a larger percentage of 30+ players are diehard than 12-20 players, at least in terms of purchasing.

But percentage is only part of the equation. A lower percentage does not mean a lower number of buyers, if the population is larger.

Let's go with the 2/3 young to 1/3 old from the 1999 survey. That's 2 young gamer for every 1 old gamer. That means, in order to have fewer diehards, the young ones have to be *less than half as likely* to be diehards, or they'll equal or exceed the older folks.

Honestly, that just doesn't fit. It is my understanding that younger folks tend to be more completionist in their buying patterns than older folks, rather than less.

Don't underestimate the buying power of younger players - are they not the same folks who, by and large, are supporting the videogame industry at $50 a game?
 

Don't underestimate the buying power of younger players - are they not the same folks who, by and large, are supporting the videogame industry at $50 a game?

Also keep in mind that the younger set has parents and relatives who are more likely to buy stuff for them. It has been a while since anyone bought gaming stuff for me.

It may be a small point, but it is there. My kids support the music industry mainly with my money.
 

I just picked up a PHB for $4 in the past month (3e, not 3.5 however). I think people are really constricted in where they are looking if they are paying $55 for a PHB.

Yea, around here I can get a 3.0 PHB cheap. It's the 3.5 PHB that is scarce as fish feathers.
 

I am not sure that the buying power is equal for the two groups. I strongly suspect that the buying power of the younger group is much higher than that of the older group.
I am quite confident he is right. The buying impact of the older players is easily in the same ballpark as the younger. It did not used to be true. But it easily is now. It may not (yet) be 40/60 old to young, but it is close and growing steadily in that direction. And it may be further along than that already.

But....
I also think that you are ignoring the fact that the 10 % core that you speak of...they were once part of the 90 % young group.
THIS is true. The young market probably DOES represent at least 50% of the current market PLUS dominates the future market. And that is important.

However, I don't think the young / old divide is so much WotC's problem as the invested/casual divide.
 

Also keep in mind that the younger set has parents and relatives who are more likely to buy stuff for them. It has been a while since anyone bought gaming stuff for me.

It may be a small point, but it is there. My kids support the music industry mainly with my money.

THIS.

When I do have the misfortune to pop into a Gamestop (whether it's the one in Herald Square or the one in Forest Hills) most of the people dropping $50 - $60 on a game arent the 12-16 year olds, it's their parents. I'm buying my own games for the X-Box360 & Playstation 3 but my wife and I ar also buying games for my 8 year old on the Wii and his DS. Either way it's the adults spending the bulk of the cash I think.
 

Either way it's the adults spending the bulk of the cash I think.

This. In my situation, my spending on leisure stuff went up considerably when I was pulling my own income and making my own financial decisions versus when I was a kid and had to beg my parents for a month or two for a new nintendo game. I buy what makes me happy and what I can buy with some sense regarding my income and required expenses. Me as a 12 year old wouldn't have bought an arcade game, a life-sized xenomorph costume for halloween, or donated $500 to charity (Doctors Without Borders) for some artwork (by Julie Dillon). I didn't have to beg my parents, I just had to not eat out for dinner for a while in some cases. Admittedly, buying a house kinda put a damper on the wild and crazy days of when I got my first job after graduation, but I still do more now than I did as a kid for leisure.

Having said that, I'm almost certain a minority of TTRPG players buy a majority of the books. I might also be tempted to go out on a limb and say that more people buy RPG books and end up just reading them than actually ever use them in the game they were written for.
 

Having said that, I'm almost certain a minority of TTRPG players buy a majority of the books. I might also be tempted to go out on a limb and say that more people buy RPG books and end up just reading them than actually ever use them in the game they were written for.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the vast majority of rpg splatbooks are purchased by the "compulsive completionist" type individuals.

Of such "compulsive completionist" type individuals I've known over the years, most of their purchases are read once or twice and then put on the bookshelf to collect dust. For example, I know one person who has bought almost every single Palladium RIFTS title released over the last two decades, but has only ever played one game of RIFTS back in the early 1990's.
 

I also think that you are ignoring the fact that the 10 % core that you speak of...they were once part of the 90 % young group.

No, not at all - I fully recognize that. I'm not sure how that changes things, though, in that I think the reason those 10% became diehards ("perennials" and not just "annuals") is because the TTRPG offered them something they couldn't get anywhere else. This is my key point: that in order for TTRPGs to survive and thrive, they have to remain TTRPGs, that is games that are primarily of the imagination and not of the board or screen.

I suspect (and this is just a guess) that economic theory would say that the best path to continued success is to aim your focus at the larger youth market in hopes of converting more of them to the long-term group. Focusing solely on the older group means that you are not expanding your audience, you are, at best, stagnating it.

Agreed. And I am not saying focusing "solely." However, I suspect that the qualities of the game that keep the older group interested are the same qualities that will converting short-termers into long-termers, because it is those same qualities that differentiate TTRPGs from other forms of entertainment.

While it would be nice to be able to find a single product that can be aimed at both groups, I am not sure that it is possible. Different cultural influences and advances in games over the years means that the type of game (using type broadly here) that each group will enjoy may vary. In some cases it may vary some, in others it may vary a lot.

Yeah, this is a good question and I honestly have no idea. I'd like to see WotC try, though. Hey, I think they kind of did with Essentials...

This isn't a challenge solely faced by WotC. This is faced by everyone in media/entertainment. Movies, TVs, video games, etc. They all have to find ways to follow the changing trends of what consumers want and how many want each type of (often conflicting) change. If they guess right more often than they guess wrong, they are doing a pretty good job.

Right. Here's an example of a success: The X-Men movies (or at least the first two). I stopped reading comic books back in '93 or so, but I loved the first two movies. Here's an example of a failure: The GI Joe movie, which I couldn't even get through the first ten minutes of and which I've heard largely negative reviews. I'm not sure if this is relevant but I think it touches a bit upon what you are saying, that there are ways to make a product appeal to different generations of fans. The X-Men movies appealed to older fans (and ex-fans like myself) as well as young 'uns, while the GI Joe movie may have been focusing too much on creating a younger generation of fans and thus lost sight of the older group and perhaps some of the qualities that appealed to the older group.

Trying to coddle and attract the elder set while neglecting the up-and-comers is a boneheaded business decision.

I agree. Is anyone saying that? But it isn't an either/or thing. See my example of the X-Men movies above. Old fans of the Claremont era X-Men could enjoy the first two movies because of their subtlety and humanism, but the movies also appealed to younger kids with their kewl factor.

The "need" for an endless supply of technical manuals to play a game of imagination is, at least from what I have seen, distributed that way.

I think you are misunderstanding why people buy "unnecessary" RPG books - that is, splats and other books that one will probably not use in an actual game. Because they are fun to read, fun to look at, and nice to have on one's shelf for reference. Most modern humans like to acquire and collect things. Gamers like to collect game books. This is why you get these sorts of poll results. Granted, probably 99% of the respondents are "diehard" gamers, but that means that almost 23% of diehard EN Worlders own at least 1,000 RPG products, 40% at least 500, and almost 75% at least 100. This is why I said that approximately 10% of the gaming populace buys about half the gaming products (or something like that).

Let's go with the 2/3 young to 1/3 old from the 1999 survey. That's 2 young gamer for every 1 old gamer. That means, in order to have fewer diehards, the young ones have to be *less than half as likely* to be diehards, or they'll equal or exceed the older folks.

Honestly, that just doesn't fit. It is my understanding that younger folks tend to be more completionist in their buying patterns than older folks, rather than less.

Hmm...not sure I agree with your reasoning here. By definition, older folks are more likely to be diehards simply by virtue of the fact that if they're still playing at 40 or 45 then they're probably really into it. I would say that the young ones are less than half as likely to be diehards simply by virtue of the fact that many of them are just trying it out, just getting started and many of them won't continue past a first experience.

However, I don't think the young / old divide is so much WotC's problem as the invested/casual divide.

Well yes, or how to bring as many young players into invested/diehardness rather than casualness.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the vast majority of rpg splatbooks are purchased by the "compulsive completionist" type individuals.

Of such "compulsive completionist" type individuals I've known over the years, most of their purchases are read once or twice and then put on the bookshelf to collect dust. For example, I know one person who has bought almost every single Palladium RIFTS title released over the last two decades, but has only ever played one game of RIFTS back in the early 1990's.

"Compulsive completionists" are simply the most extreme version of collectors of which most diehard gamers are. See linked poll above. I'm not a compulsive completionist but I do buy about 60% of the 4E hardcovers, which is quite a few.
 

Mercurius said:
I think you are misunderstanding why people buy "unnecessary" RPG books - that is, splats and other books that one will probably not use in an actual game.
I know that I have written from firsthand experience.

I am also taking into account the rationales that the publisher and buyers of the works in question have been giving.

I am not seeing how mere acquisitiveness necessitates (or even benefits from) dumping old D&D rules and putting the name on something different. I am not seeing how it necessitates (or even benefits from) not publishing -- or buying -- different games by different names, or even an ongoing series of really creative additions to a well-established line.

The fundamental premise I see is one of an inevitably shrinking market. Otherwise, it makes no sense to me go through all the expense of producing "Nth Edition" rather than sell new and classic products to new and classic gamers.
 
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