Is D&D (WotC) flaming out?

[Ariosto]

I find your story... implausible.

That's the thing about real life: unlike fiction, it does not need to be plausible.

 

[Ariosto]

you were shocked to discover rules for resolving searches using dice rolls?

Put down the Wand of ESP and try reading what people actually write.

What Korgoth wrote was, "before you had to say where you were searching. Now it doesn't matter what you say, all that matters is that you roll high on the D20 and have a good modifier to add to it."

The rule of describing moves held (and holds) true playing RuneQuest as well, in my experience. Depending on what you're doing there might or might not be a reason to roll. The reason suggests the skill or other rating that is applicable. Circumstances may warrant a bonus or penalty.

Not that the 3e designers did not write some (IMO) bonkers stuff -- but I'll bet they actually laid down no such rule as that it doesn't matter how the player conducts a search. If they did not in fact advise that specifics of moves can and even ought to be taken into account in adjudication -- in searching as well as in slashing -- then I will be surprised.

The actual, by-the-book rules have not kept players from imposing all sorts of restrictions for which "3e" broadly often gets blamed.

Mechanical resolution of NPC reactions, as handled by the Diplomacy skill in 3E, have been part of the game since 1974. Explicit guidelines for modifiying the base die roll have been in place since at least 1979.

Yes.

Korgoth's apparent objection is to removing the explicit basis for modifying the roll, or -- what is really the object -- the effect in the situation. As with physical undertakings, some exercises of influence are more difficult than others and there are more and less effective strategies.

It is indeed strategy that gets cast to the wind, just as if we were to "play Chess" by letting dice choose our moves.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Definately. If there were as many options to choose tactics when interacting with others as we had options for combat, that would go a long way to making those interactions interesting, even though you're rolling dice. Details are always good, expecially when those details can have a mechanical effect.

Player 1: I'm addressing the Baron with the proper address, that'll give me a +2 bonus. I'll open with Emotional Plea, telling him how his peasants are suffering from the taxes he's leveling.

Player 2: Forget that. I'm going to interrupt and make an Ad Homonin attack. Let's see how he likes that!

DM: The Baron howls in indignation. He's going to try and use Intimidate to make you back off.

Player 1: Hey, can I use Soothing Words to try and calm the Baron back down?

etc....

There are two other ways to handle it, at the least.

The first is for the GM to give a circumstance bonus for a well played bit of social interaction - this is what I favor when I am GMing. It rewards role play, and can add to the fun.

The other is to look at your die roll and tailor your response to fit. For example 'I am very glad to be seeing of your fatness! All the land speaks of how large you are! One of the biggest kings in all the world!' when translating from Common to elfish for example, where the word 'great' is taken to be synonymous with 'Large', 'Big', and 'Fat'. (This has worked both ways in the real world - Albertus Magnus was originally 'Albrecht deGroot' or 'Fat Albert'.)

Hamming up the failures can be just as much fun as sliding gracefully through the successes. This is the method that I prefer on the rare occasion when I am a player.

The Auld Grump

 

[catsclaw227]

Put down the Wand of ESP and try reading what people actually write.

Hey guys, this sucks.

Ariosto, I have seen you be antagonistic in the past. I even left enworld for a while, but I'm a 7-8 year EnWorld poster with his share of relevant posts. And I am starting to think that the the bile coming out of here stinks pits...

All the WOTC bashing, the retaliatory "railroad APs suck" (a dig at Paizo I can only assume, too bad too.) and ", New school vs Old school, all the antagonistic and non productive talk that can't let a guy like me get his new sandbox world going.

Cause I am gonna use 4.xe Essentials+Compendium, but instead of the "points of light" world, I want to do a new one, with a sketch and all my massive 3.x material to build his world, I have all the Necro stuff, bluffside, scarred lands, . And start at 10th level.

Here I am.

But with all the bickering I see here, how can anyone get some really great ideas?

Should I world build here, in the forums, and draw upon the EnWorld Collective? Or, instead, when I visit the General Forums to talk generalities what will I see?

Individuals spewing self righteousness and bile or active aid an helpful specific answers?

Cause, when I visit the 4e Forums, I see sadness and discussion of WOTC business decisions instead of "how do I do this in my world' discussions.

I want to world build a 4e game in a 3e sandbox world with old 3PP supplements. Atlas Games' Seven... series. City State of the Invincible Overlord. Sasserine from the Savage Tide AP. Freeport of Green Ronin fame. Etc..

Do you think I can find some help with 3.x dudes with experience in these 3.x products that can respect that I will be converting to 4e? And even be willing to give me a lift?

There's lots of 3.x setting info ripe for 4e conversion.

 

[catsclaw227]

hamming up the failures can be just as much fun as sliding gracefully through the successes. This is the method that i prefer on the rare occasion when i am a player.

+1.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Do you think I can find some help with 3.x dudes with experience in these 3.x products that can respect that I will be converting to 4e? And even be willing to give me a lift?

Yes, I think it's possible, but given the amount of time someone puts into learning 3.XEd and/or 4Ed- and how those systems appeal differently to different people- finding those able and willing to bridge the gap...well...that's going to be rare.

For instance, I love 3.X and think I've a decent grasp of it. 4Ed, OTOH, I'd a game I respect as a FRPG, but don't find it scratching my D&D itch. This translates into my mastery of 4Ed being...sketchy.

Being who I am, I'm perfectly willing to help anyone flesh out their game and convert elements from one to another...but I'm not sure I have the ABILITY to help.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Do you think I can find some help with 3.x dudes with experience in these 3.x products that can respect that I will be converting to 4e? And even be willing to give me a lift?

I know both systems pretty well, but I do not know those products. Sorry.

There's lots of 3.x setting info ripe for 4e conversion.

I agree 100%

 

[Dark Mistress]

Catsclaw you actually might want to try necro forums as well. There is a few people there that like 4e, some that like 3e, some into pathfinder and some into retro clones. We all get along fairly well and tend to be helpful. Yeah there is a few now and again who can be a problem but it's pretty rare. You might be able to find help there if you can't find it else where.

 

[catastrophic]

Yes, I think it's possible, but given the amount of time someone puts into learning 3.XEd and/or 4Ed- and how those systems appeal differently to different people- finding those able and willing to bridge the gap...well...that's going to be rare.

Certainly help might be rare, but it's not really fair to assume that everyone views these systems like you.

You might feel that the systems 'appeal differently to different people', but there are plenty of people I know who got the same thing from playing each game, even if they feel one game is a btter fit for them. I certainly know a lot of people who know both systems very well.

Anyway I hope catsclaw has fun with his project, and I think he has the right attitude.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Certainly help might be rare, but it's not really fair to assume that everyone views these systems like you.

I'm not.

My statement was based on what I've seen on ENWorld the past few years. Simply put, there aren't many who love & mastered 3.XEd who likewise love & mastered 4Ed, and game conversions work best when there is equal skill on both sides of the equation.

Anyway I hope catsclaw has fun with his project...

I wish catsclaw nothing but success, and will contribute to that if I can.