What the World needs: E6 in Book Format

[Sir Robilar]

(Edit: I had to repost this thread since the title ending with the word "Print" took you to the Print version of the thread and no one could answer. Thanks to the_orc_within for telling me about this!)



This goes out to OGL publishers and to fans of E6:



Following the forums on enworld, rpg net and Paizo lately there is a LOT of buzz about E6. Threads about it keep popping up and lots of gamers write that it is their favourite variant of D&D. E6 is, in my opinion, a great system that gives focus to what is cool about D&D while getting rid of the wuxia bloat of later levels.

So I´m wondering: Why hasn´t anyone published a version of E6? The answer is easy of course - E6 is so simple that no one needs a printed version. It is explained in a few sentences and is pretty much plug-and-play.

However, I still feel that a printed version could be fantastic. Imagine a nice and slim version of the player´s handbook with the following:

- all races and classes up to 6th level, maybe reorganising some of the class abilities so every class has their iconic abilities.
- no reference of later levels in spells, item creation, skill DCs and so on
- a spell selection that adds some later spells that are iconic while toning them down in power and that gets rid of low level spells that don´t make much sense in a E6 game.
- a nice and meaty collection of Feats for the 6 + X levels.
- maybe a small bestiary including suitable critters and low level NPCs
- DM advice on running successful E6 campaigns.

Honestly, I´d buy this in a heartbeat. Would also work with Pathfinder nicely, I think.

So... would anyone else be interested in this or am I completely insane?

 

[Alzrius]

I've seen at least one pay-for-download supplement written for E6 so far, so there might be something to this.

That said, I think it's a great idea for someone to make a "professional" E6 Pathfinder book. But it'd certainly take some real work.

You certainly could just treat such a book as a mechanics-only supplement. As you said, it'd retool everything to being level 6, reworking the rules to accommodate the changes...but I don't think it'd be quite so cut-and-dried.

There are, at least to my mind, a lot of questions about what should be added, tweaked, or deleted in an E6 rulebook. Do you incorporate a lot of new low-power magic items (e.g. Super Genius Games' Loot 4 Less line of products)? What about introducing incantations for keeping some spell effects that are normally above 3rd level?

And the monsters...at what level do you stop introducing higher-CR monsters? Do you keep them to monsters of CR 6? Or do you go a few points higher to account for stronger PC parties?

That's without even getting into questions of campaign design. Should the book push a more Tolkien-esque feel for magic, where spellcasters are very rare? Should very high-CR monsters be kept in the game as background threats to create a "small fish in a very big pond" feel for players (e.g. "Swords are of no use here! Fly you fools!")? Does it include rules for making spell-less variants of paladins, rangers, and bards?

E6 is a great idea, and I personally love it, but I think that it means different things to different people, and making a full game supplement out of the book would be tricky if it wanted to keep the "underground" popularity the idea is enjoying now.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I've been thinking a lot about this, actually, though from the perspective of just getting a core SRD out there stripped down to the E6 elements only. A print version would be quite nifty (almost Red Box-y ), though I have a hard time imagining exactly what it would be or who it would be aimed at.

The problem I see with a print version is that E6 is more of an approach to the game rather than a game in and of itself. What I mean is that, while the base rule ("chop off everything above 6th level") is quite simple and straightforward, everything beyond that it is fairly table specific. In other words, there are a lot of judgement calls: which monsters to include, which 'epic' advancement rules to include, what (if any) higher level magics to include, even what system to write it for (3.5/PF/d20 optimized for E6) . Really, it seems there are as many ways to play E6 as there are tables that play it.

So I'm not sure exactly what a print version would look like. Much of it would necessarily be a single publisher's specific imagining of an ideal E6 rule set, plus maybe some discussion of other approaches and options.

To me, the most useful thing would just be a publication (online or print) that takes the SRD and strips out all the obviously non-E6 stuff, so when I look at a table or spell list, I'm only seeing thing applicable to my game, and not the 2/3 of the full rule set that's mostly irrelevant. This would include things like class features, spell lists, feat lists, and the rules for combat and adventuring, of course. But as for what to do with the more table-specific items like monsters, magic items, variant rules and the like, I'm kind of at a loss.

 

[kitsune9]

While E6 isn't for me, I can see the appeal of it to fans of low-magic systems, but the current rules is only 13 pages? Probably the author should expand out the system a little bit more to at least 32 pages, but a "nice" sized book would be 64. What 64 pages would be made of, I wouldn't know other than maybe pared down versions of spells or simplified monster stats and rules on how to convert the SRD editions into E6.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I am going to start an E8 game soon (to allow more prestige class action) and a book on this could be good, especially with feats and prestige classes that would work well in this kind of game. E6 has a different way of looking at the game, very different, and setting up the rules to be easier to show this mindset would be nice.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Would also work with Pathfinder nicely, I think.

Nonono, not "would"; "does"!

It would be the better choice if publishing, I believe. I daresay there are more Pathfinder players than 3e players now. People love that whole "ongoing support" thing. Also, it's a nice revision.

So... would anyone else be interested in this or am I completely insane?

... Both?

Incantations would be key. Likewise, "prestige feats".

I've had some success with a 7-level variant, but I suspect there would be very little interest in seeing that in print, especially given that it features a bit of a system rewrite in general (feats, skills, CR/ECL, XP, wounds, etc., etc.). But hey, we like it.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

[PF] would be the better choice if publishing, I believe. I daresay there are more Pathfinder players than 3e players now. People love that whole "ongoing support" thing. Also, it's a nice revision.

You're probably right. After hearing rumors of a PF Basic, I immediately thought that making it a 6-level starter would be perfect. Just throw in a few E6 pages at the end. Then players would have an alternative way to continue PC advancement without necessarily continuing on to the "Expert Set" detailing levels 7+.

 

[Sir Robilar]

It escapes me a little why some might think a print of E6 should go for some special flavour of fantasy. I don´t understand this as basic 3.5 doesn´t do that either. At least 3.5 never explains how the assumed world is supposed to work, mixing high level superheroes with middle age economy, wild running monsters and small border towns without city walls. D&D novels don´t seem to be a help either as most of them ignore high levels completely.

Couldn´t E6 in print be basically a stripped down version of 3.5 with giving just about the same amount of campaign flavour? In this way it would remain modular and players could make of it what they want.

Concerning the other concerns - I don´t quite see it. Why are necessary desing decissions a stopper? Incantations or nor, let the publisher decide. If they are smart enough, they´ll go for an open playtest before launch of the game to see what the masses really like.

As I see it, E6 is not a complete game because of how it started - as a plug-in to regular D&D. However, that doesn´t mean it wouldn´t become a game if someone had the guts do make it. It would take a few clear design decisions, but afterwards, in my opinion, it could be a fantastic fantasy game of it´s own. Probably much more internally consistent and "logical" than good old 3.5.

 

[Dice4Hire]

To me that is what E6 is. It is a different way of looking at the game, and by basically meta-gaming, making a different fantasy world. With E6, there is no such thing as 4th to 9th level spells. Maybe never has been in the world. So a lot of fantasy ideas need to be shelved, and the NPCs will react differently.

Of course this assumes that regular fantasy worlds take into account the higher level spells and abilities, which a lot do not, of course.

I know with my games, I like lower fantasy and usually set a level that most (meaning 99+%) cannot go above. In my current game, most people cap at 5th, and leaders of great churches and knightly orders absolutely cap at 10th. The characters are currently 15th, and it makes a big impact. They can do things NO ONE else in the world can.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Couldn´t E6 in print be basically a stripped down version of 3.5 with giving just about the same amount of campaign flavour? In this way it would remain modular and players could make of it what they want.

I completely agree with this. Such a rule book doesn't need any setting-specific ifo, and, imho, shouldn't.

The only issue is that "a stripped down version of 3.5" Isn't quite as clear cut as one would think, and is actually still pretty hefty without fair bit of weeding. There are quite a few places in the rules where you can't just go "chop!" and be left with E6. It's easy enough to overlook at the table, or even handle in an open format like a webpage, but print is a lot more restrictive.

I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it will likely be a bit different than what I or any one person envision as "E6". It'll be it's own thing, instead.

Concerning the other concerns - I don´t quite see it. Why are necessary desing decissions a stopper? Incantations or nor, let the publisher decide. If they are smart enough, they´ll go for an open playtest before launch of the game to see what the masses really like.

Oh, design decisions aren't a show stopper at all! They're just, by necessity, judgment calls on the publisher's part which may or may not mesh with others' E6 implementations. Of course, a publisher will have professional designers available, so hopefully their implementation would be good. Plus, an open playtest is a great idea to resolve that kind of thing out, though. Sign me up.

As I see it, E6 is not a complete game because of how it started - as a plug-in to regular D&D. However, that doesn´t mean it wouldn´t become a game if someone had the guts do make it. It would take a few clear design decisions, but afterwards, in my opinion, it could be a fantastic fantasy game of it´s own. Probably much more internally consistent and "logical" than good old 3.5.

Again, I agree completely. I can already smell that new-book smell....