Sincere and unbiased.

[almeidafreak]

Hi all! I'm a long time lurker, and I always enjoyed this forums, so I decided to post after all.

First of all, I'm brazillian, so excuse my grammar mistakes ^_^

I'm currently a D&D 4e DM, and even though I love the system, some things I loved about D&D got lost in it. For example, the fact that all classes are equally strong somehow took the "fantasy" feel out of it. Also, the mage (for example) which is a strong and important piece in any fantasy setting, kinda turned into a combatant only, since he's got no more "your-everyday-every-use" magic anymore. I dunno, I just don't feel it as epic and magic as before.

Maybe it's just me, maybe it's not. I feel more compelled to design combat encounters other than puzzles and stuff. Plus, I can't seem to be able to design non-combat encounters in which you have to use your wit and creative to come up with smart decisions and unpredicted solutions. I feel like it's a wargame before it is an RPG.

Or maybe I'm a bad DM, who knows?

Anyway, I've been looking to buy the Pathfinder books, but since it's a huge investment (the core rulebook costs $74 in Brazil goddamit!), I wanted a sincere and unbiased opinion on the game.

I know I'm posting on the Pathfinder forum and that a unbiased opinion may be hard to get, but I trust I'll find my response here. I hope it's not asking too much, but I wanted to know the feel of the game, and it's good and awful sides. It's not really about getting someone to buy the books, and to help a fellow gamer, so don't spare me any details.

Also, I KNOW 4e really well, so no need to dwell on that. I'm not here to start a flame war or provoke anyone. I'm interested in Pathfinder and I need to know the good and the bad reasons why I should or shouldn't get it.

Thanks a bunch in advance! Sorry for the long post!

 

[Gorbacz]

Actually, you don't have to spend anything to try out Pathfinder. All the rules are avialable at paizo.com/prd , and you can grab one of the free Pathfinder adventures (eg. Master of The Fallen Fortress) from their website and have a look how it works out for you.

One of Paizo's biggest strengths are their modules and adventure paths, which take a lot of time for background, story and non-combat stuff (as opposed to the official WotC adventures, which are rather lacking in that regard).

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I'll second what Gorbacz said about the adventures. And if you want the rules in a format you can access without the internet you can get the Core Rules, Gamemastery Guide, Advanced Players Guide, Bestiary and Bestiary II in pdf format for only $10 apiece. All of these are updated every time new errata comes out, so your PDFs always have the latest version of the rules.

 

[Umbran]

Also, the mage (for example) which is a strong and important piece in any fantasy setting, kinda turned into a combatant only, since he's got no more "your-everyday-every-use" magic anymore.

I know this is aside from your actual request, but I think you will find most of the non-combat, everyday use stuff in 4e is now in Rituals - the spellcasters can still do that stuff, it just a Ritual, not a Daily Power.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I also believe that the pdf for the Pathfinder core book is pretty darn cheap ($5, $10?).

You might use that to form your own opinion before plopping down all that money, even with some useful responses in this thread.

 

[Gorbacz]

All PDFs of Paizo hardcovers (Core, Bestiary 1 & 2, APG, DMG and the upcoming Campaign Setting, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat) are at 10 USD.

 

[almeidafreak]

Right, thanks a lot for the tips guys.

All of you are PF players's/DMs?

 

[Gorbacz]

I am a DM, I'm running several PF games, most importantly Paizo's Rise of the Runelords campaign - I started in 2008, ran it under no less than SIX game systems (we started with 3.5, moved thru PF Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Alpha 3 to finally switch to full Pathfinder) and I've had an amazing BLAST running it. Everybody in my group loves the storyline, the setting (Golarion) and the rule changes.

 

[almeidafreak]

Is it a really big improvement in comparison to 3.5?

I remember a big complaint was that the martial classes were hack'n'slash machines, and I wonder if that was fixed.

One thing I really liked about the "old" D&D is that every class had it's own "peculiarities" (sp?), and 4e kinda took it away, since every class gets the same at same levels. Kinda bores me, that kind of perfect balance.

I also read that some bizarre 3.5 mechanics (i.e. grapple) were fixed, which is awesome.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I'm both a GM and a player - running 'Legacy of Fire' and 'Serpent's Skull' APs and about to run the module 'Crypt of the Everflame.' I'm also playing in several different games. I'm playing 3.5, Pathfinder and 4E. I was at first dead set against 4E but a friend talked me into trying it, and I really like it. I've been playing since the old 'Blue Box' basic edition. In order of preference, I now like:

1. Pathfinder
2. 4E
3. 3.5

Pathfinder gave all of the core classes a great facelift. The best thing they did, IMO, was making them all fun to play straight through from levels 1 to 20. I still multiclass in some of my games, and have a character I'm working toward a prestige class, but in every case it's because I'm trying to achieve a certain feel for the character rather than because it seems necessary to be effective.

The skill system is streamlined and makes much more sense. The combat maneuvers (Grapple, yes, but also Bull Rush, Trip, Overrun, and all of the others) have been simplified and unified under one mechanic.

The APG offers heaps of fun, with some very flavorful new base classes (Alchemist, Witch, Summoner, Cavalier, Inquisitor) as well as 'Archetypes' - different builds for the core classes that allow a ton of customization. They also threw in alternate racial abilities for the core races that allow you to customize them.