Ok, since we're talking Complete Warrior, name the fighter kit that isn't based around combat.
Is it time for 5E?
- Thread starter CleverNickName
- Start date
By the same token, how are many older edition spells any different? How many times have you seen fireball used outside of combat, despite that being the purpose of the fireball spell? How many spells have far, far more information on what they do in a fight, only to be used to some way different, possible bizarre, end?
Players who think outside the box will think outside the box; those that won't, won't. I've seen - and I'd bet we've all seen - plenty of pre-4e wizards who never used a spell in a creative manner. And I've seen 4e wizards that do. The edition doesn't change that.
The American buffalo population has gone extinct due to people hunting it for food. Since it's extinction less people have been eating buffalo.
Is that good enough to join in the game a logical fallacy?
Player: I cast Magic Mithle (missile)
DM: On what?
Player: I am attacking.
DM: What are you attacking?
Player: I attack the darkness.
You know where that joke comes from? What people tried to do with magic missile outside of direct damage to an opponent in battle. Using it to move levers across chasms or unlock a jail cell, etc.
Magic missile is pretty much the quintessential combat only spell, but MANY arguments were had on people trying to use it another way.
As to your fireball itself...MANY times has I seen it used outside of combat. My players really love to search every room of a structure. If that structure is old an unoccupied and found along the way, they would have no qualms about fireballing it out of existence so they didnt have to search it again in the future. The ranger even considers it a good way to return nature to its natural state.
Dice4Hire
First Post
The ranger even considers it a good way to return nature to its natural state.
Works for me.
Player: I cast Magic Mithle (missile)
DM: On what?
Player: I am attacking.
DM: What are you attacking?
Player: I attack the darkness.
You know where that joke comes from? What people tried to do with magic missile outside of direct damage to an opponent in battle. Using it to move levers across chasms or unlock a jail cell, etc.
Magic missile is pretty much the quintessential combat only spell, but MANY arguments were had on people trying to use it another way.
As to your fireball itself...MANY times has I seen it used outside of combat. My players really love to search every room of a structure. If that structure is old an unoccupied and found along the way, they would have no qualms about fireballing it out of existence so they didnt have to search it again in the future. The ranger even considers it a good way to return nature to its natural state.
Yes, that's my point. Many spells in previous editions were very much designed for combat, but used outside of it. I see no reason why 4e is excluded from this.
Krensky
First Post
The American bison is nowhere near extinct. They are significantly reduced from their pre-nineteenth century numbers, but they're currently not even listed as threatened by the International Union for Conservation of Nature.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Absolutely.
The gray area is those many players who would think outside the box if they were encouraged to or even realized they were allowed to. And that comes down to how the game is presented. If the written books are presented as guidelines (both for players and DMs) you'll get a lot more out-of-box thinking overall than if the books are presented as hard-and-fast rules.
Lan-"the challenge is to successfully use Tenser's Floating Disc as an attack"-efan
Except the spells give more than just combat use right there. The fact you only see and think combat is the difference in what is presetnted and what is there. The fact 4th edition powers SCREAMS combat is the difference I am talking about. It would make you see it more as jsut for combat, when you see all spells as combat only anyway.
Use the disc to push an enemy off a cliff, into a fire, under green slime, deliver a moltov cocktail into a group of sleeping enemies, etc....
....and Exactly. The fact that some see fireball as only combat, is not the system, but their view. Not entirely a wrong view, but 4th just yells it form the top of the mountain. Does a 4th edition fireball exist, and does it "ignite all other combustable material in the blast radius"?
Beast Rider
Actually, glancing through all the kits in the Complete Warrior, a lot offer no combat advantage.
There are 14 kits in total and 6 fall into this category:
- Beast Rider -- empathic abilities with one type of mount
- Noble Warrior -- social kit for feudal campaigns
- Peasant Hero -- social kit for feudal / tyrannical campaigns
- Pirate/Outlaw -- social kit
- Savage -- semi-mystical / skill monkey
- Wilderness Warrior -- survival specialist
Several other kits have at least a small combat advantage in addition to the other features of the kit like Swashbucker, a primarily social kit that offers +2 AC bonus in light armour only.
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