D&D 3E/3.5 What do you ban? (3.5)

[JamesonCourage]

Well I've admited my mistake in calling you out. If you want to be un-gracious thats your bussiness.

I didn't mean any offense. Honestly. I appreciate you reaching out. I'd like this to be a discussion, not an argument.

My point is simply that these are my opinions. Feel free to disregard them as much as you'd like

 

[ashockney]

Somewhere in the noise of this 20 page tirade, which I've not bothered to read, was lost a really interesting topic. A combined list of "warning" items, spells, and class/racial abilities. I would LOVE to have such a list, with which to compare, and the more people "voting" on a given item, the more they would be up for reviews or levels of warning. Low warning, moderate warning, high warning, extreme warning. I'm posting this in the hopes that someone will compile such a list. Perhaps even in an ever growing poll. This is a really outstanding idea, and could become a VALUABLE reference tool for designers, DM's, writers, and the like.

 

[ashockney]

Spells Worth A Second Look

In the interest of simplicity, I will post my "modifications" to the SRD 3.5 spells.

Alter Self
Polymorph Self
Polymorph Other
Shape Change
Scrying
Greater Scrying
Greater Prying Eyes
Discern Location
Anti-magic shell
Poison
Prismatic Spray
Prismatic Wall
Daze
Daze Monster
Fear
Calm
Charm Person
Command
Command Undead
Suggestion
Charm Monster
Greater Command
Magic Jar
Mass Suggestion
Symbol of Persuasion
Mass Charm Monster
Sleep
Deep Slumber
Symbol of Sleep
Sound Burst
Scintillating Pattern
Power Word, Stun
Symbol of Stunning
Phantasmal Killer
Slay Living
Circle of Death
Destruction
Power Word, Kill
Finger of Death
Wail of the Banshee
Implosion
Weird
Feeblemind
Tasha's Unconrollable Hideous Laughter
Otto's Irresistable Dance
Enervate
Levitate
Fly
Water Walk
Air Walk
Overland Flight
Wind Walk
Tree Stride
Transport Via Plants
Dimension Door
Teleport
Word of Recall
Greater Teleport
Teleport Circle
Heroes' Feast
Divine Power
Tenser's Transformation
Divine Favor
Enlarge
Mass Enlarge Person
Righteous Might
True Strike
Moment of Prescience
Hide
Blur
Displacement
Invisibility
Greater Invisibility
Mislead
Mass Invisibility
Project Image
Blink
Gaseous Form
Plane Shift
Ethereal Jaunt
Etherealness
Mirror Image
Spell Resistance
Holy Aura
Spell Turning
Sanctuary
Protection from Evil
Meld Into Stone
Anti-Plant Shell
Anti-Animal Shell
Anti-Life Shell
Wall of Iron
Wall of Force
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Forcecage
Mind Fog
Maze
Evard's Black Tentacles
Heal
Mass Heal
Augury
Commune
Commune with Nature
Stone Tell
Find the Path
True Seeing
Raise Dead
Ressurection
True Ressurection
Reincarnate
Limited Wish
Wish
Web
Imprisonment
Mage's Disjunction
Dominate Monster
Hold Person
Hold Monster
Mass Hold Monster
Energy Drain
Astral Projection
Trap the Soul
Implosion
Control Undead
Flesh to Stone
Touch of Idiocy
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Globe of Invulnerability
Spell Immunity
Greater Spell Immunity
Earthquake
Word of Chaos
Blasphemy
Holy Word

Other than that, everything's JUST fine...: ) (This is a real list, with real modifications to these "groups" of spells, most are just tweaks to better align them to the power available at the level.)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

That's a really long list, and I can only shake my head at a bunch of the entries. But I'm too lazy to go item by item through all those spells, so...*shrug*

 

[Corwin of Amber]

In the interest of simplicity, I will post my "modifications" to the SRD 3.5 spells.

*list*

Other than that, everything's JUST fine...: ) (This is a real list, with real modifications to these "groups" of spells, most are just tweaks to better align them to the power available at the level.)

What types of modificatons have you made?

I definately understand modifying the polymorph-type spells that WotC has been haphazardly trying to correct, themselves. I can also see an excuse for changing the divination/scrying spells that can ruin a story twist or atmosphere of suspense. However, some spells on the list are ones that I consider balanced and useful, such as the low level SoS/SoL, Spell Immunities, and Enervate (possibly my favorite spell ever).

 

[Alexander123]

Was it really necessary to give a listing of all those spells?

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

I've broken down traditional Racial traits, and divided it into four different categories: Racial, Societal, National, and Regional. Racial traits have no variation, while Societal, National, and Regional traits all let you spend a set amount of points, with each list having options (that way an elder from one nation looks different from a warrior of the same nation).
* Racial traits are inherent to the race, no matter where the race is, who they were raised by, etc.
* Societal traits are given to creatures that are raised within the society of another race. For example, if a human was raised amongst dwarves, then he would be subject to the dwarven Societal traits.
* National traits are given to creatures that are raised within the borders of a specific nation. For example, someone raised in the elven nation of Nissalli will have a different natural leaning then someone raised among the dwarven nation of Kalamane.
* Lastly, Regional traits are given to creatures who are raised within a specific terrain. Those raised within a forest will differ from those raised in a city, and both will differ from those raised in the mountains.

Like some aspects of Celebrim's system, this subsystem sounds interesting enough to post here. I've been working on a system like this for a while now but don't feel like I have enough options in each category, so I'd particularly like to see what you've come up with.

* You have literally no chance of advancing technology in any meaningful way. I simply won't allow it.
* Equipment is based (however loosely) on medieval period weapons (with a wide time range, admittedly). That means equipment based on eastern, native American, etc. cultures will not be considered.

Mind explaining why? Unless there's divinely-enforced Medieval Stasis or some conspiracy behind the scenes or something like that, I can't think of any in-game rationale for being unable to advance technology; I can't see any out-of-game reason to declare that the world is in Medieval Stasis by fiat rather than line-item vetoing inventions, either, seeing that you're focusing so much on realism and inventions and progress and such is a constant aspect of real-world history.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Like some aspects of Celebrim's system, this subsystem sounds interesting enough to post here. I've been working on a system like this for a while now but don't feel like I have enough options in each category, so I'd particularly like to see what you've come up with.

I can post this is you'd like, though it's pages long, with unique races, unique nations, etc. Even the races common to D&D and my game are different (the D&D dwarf is not the same as the dwarf in my game). The document isn't that long (about a dozen pages, I believe), though it is fairly straightforward.

Mind explaining why? Unless there's divinely-enforced Medieval Stasis or some conspiracy behind the scenes or something like that, I can't think of any in-game rationale for being unable to advance technology; I can't see any out-of-game reason to declare that the world is in Medieval Stasis by fiat rather than line-item vetoing inventions, either, seeing that you're focusing so much on realism and inventions and progress and such is a constant aspect of real-world history.

Well, consider how long the dark ages through the middle ages lasted. It was hundreds of years. Technology is only now growing at an exponential rate; it's why we call our current age the information age.

Everything within the setting has been fine-tuned around the concept of the a semi-European medieval setting. If I allow actual advances in technology, it would realistically snowball, and the carefully constructed economic system would be changed fundamentally if, say, one of the players discovered gunpowder.

In-game, this is easily explainable: you didn't think of it. You might come up with a new use of alchemy, sure. Something not in the book I wrote. However, any substantial advances in technology would drastically take away from the setting I run, as if I wanted to realistically run that technological advancement, you can nearly guarantee that nations would begin to produce said product.

These players are living in a swords and sorcery fantasy world, and advancing technology in any meaningful simply defeats that purpose. Now, this is something that another GM could easily allow using my system, and I'd like to think that my system supports that change fairly well, though I'll admit to it being untested.

Simply put: to allow a player to advance technology (not that I think their character would probably be capable, realistically), I would have to adjust the entire setting over time. Simply not allowing their characters the chance to advance technology is a personal preference, but one that other GMs could ignore. Though I'd argue that outside of some amazing skill checks, they simply could not come up with that technology. To my own bane, however, if someone was so interested, they could specialize enough to achieve those skill checks successfully and regularly.

 

[Dandu]

Other than that, everything's JUST fine...: )

Planar Binding.

 

[ashockney]

Alter Self, Polymorph Self, Polymorph Other, Shape Change
At their heart these are buff spells, and they are very, very overpowered compared to other buffs of the level. There is the "threat" of thse providing some inherent limitations to the character, but they really have no tactical bearing. Either these are all no-brainer spells for their level and all other buffs falter, or these need to be pulled in line. I pulled them in line.


Scrying, Greater Scrying, Greater Prying Eyes, Discern Location
Augury, Commune, Commune with Nature, Stone Tell, Find the Path, True Seeing
Why should these be so much more powerful than Gather Information or Diplomacy? I'm not a big fan of "absolutes" in the game. These deter from roleplaying, and end up being used as shortcuts, even encouraging the players to stall and cajole the casters into using them to "fast-forward" the plot. A slight change to make these skill-based challenges both align this better with other characters abilities and don't make these an "absolute" success for the players when casting.


Daze, Daze Monster, Fear, Calm, Charm Person, Command, Command Undead, Suggestion, Charm Monster, Greater Command, Magic Jar, Mass Suggestion, Symbol of Persuasion, Mass Charm Monster, Sleep, Deep Slumber, Symbol of Sleep, Sound Burst, Scintillating Pattern, Power Word, Stun, Symbol of Stunning, Feeblemind, Tasha's Unconrollable Hideous Laughter,
Otto's Irresistable Dance, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Forcecage, Mind Fog, Maze, Evard's Black Tentacles, Holy Word, Blasphemy, Word of Chaos, Control Undead, Imprisonment, Dominate Monster, Mass Hold Monster
By far the most powerful economy in the tactical game is that of actions. Any spells that limit, negate, or prevent actions are extremely powerful, particularly at higher levels, when the threat of losing all actions in a single blow is significantly diminished from any other source. I like handling these as a high-risk, high-reward debuff. These are all direct debuffs, comparable in effect to their level, but many are high-risk, high-reward actions that if successful result (like disintegrate) result in a powerful de-buff that affects an opponent (or group of opponents) to challenge both mental awareness (Surprise) and Mental Perserverance (Will to Act).


Phantasmal Killer, Slay Living, Circle of Death, Destruction, Power Word, Kill
Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee. Implosion, Weird, Trap the Soul, Implosion, Flesh to Stone, Earthquake
Again, as above, anything that can instantly eliminate a threat is radically more powerful than most spells of the level. These are the classic high-risk, high-reward play, and I think the 3.5 version of disintegrate handled this line the best, and provided us with a superior model for balance.

Anti-magic shell
Really? Either the single most powerful spell in the game, or totally broken.

Enervation
So, I would challenge you to think why you find this to be your favorite spell? You know how fun it is for yoru PC's to lose Con or levels. Yeah, that's not cool. These are all debuffs at their heart, and should be pulled in line with other debuffs of their level.