Do You Use XP

[Ahnehnois]

But I also kept some things, of which by far the most important is this: if a PC did nothing in a given situation to earn experience then he doesn't get any for that situation. Period. And this is my beef with "level 'em when it suits" DMs: you're rewarding those who do nothing just as much as those who stick their necks out. Having played with players who would take shameless advantage of this were it possible, I'll never support it.

One hopes that "DM's discretion" would take into account this kind of abuse. That said, playing this way (without XP) implies a high level of trust that the players will be engaged and act reasonably. That probably why you see a lot of responses of people who used XP and then dropped it; not so much because they learned one way was better but because they developed a comfort level with their group to where the DM no longer felt XP was necessary.

Consider an analogy: money. Some people are paid largely by commission or tips, some people are paid flat by the hour, and some people are paid salary. The less pay is tied to performance and work, the more it is assumed that the recipient will work well. Some people prefer commissions and such for the chance to earn extra money, some desire a flat salary to take away the stress involved in making decisions on the job that earn you money. The same is true of D&D XP; some people want to see their actions rewarded through XP, and some people just want to play the game and don't care.

 

[Zhaleskra]

I may go to the "level when appropriate" mode, especially if I'm running prewritten modules. Those usually give level ranges for the PCs.

It would complicate things like unused Hero Points in Forbidden Kingdoms, which each become 200 XP on leveling.

 

[Balesir]

Maybe it's because this is mainly a D&D board, but the thing that really surprises me here is the assumption that there will be 'XP rules' at all. I see character power-boost mechanics (including XP -> Level Up) as one of the core mechanics for driving the focus of play. With such a mechanic, you are almost sure to get the players either competing or cooperating in the challenge of doing whatever they get XP for to the maximum possible degree - thus getting rewarded with more powerful characters. For challenge-based play, this is great - exactly what you want, in fact. For collective world/setting/character exploration or collaborative storytelling, though, it is, at best, a distraction and, at worst, a disruptive and derailing influence.

So, to answer the question, I use XP systems as written - but I make sure they are written in a way that supports the game the group wants.

 

[Barastrondo]

One hopes that "DM's discretion" would take into account this kind of abuse. That said, playing this way (without XP) implies a high level of trust that the players will be engaged and act reasonably. That probably why you see a lot of responses of people who used XP and then dropped it; not so much because they learned one way was better but because they developed a comfort level with their group to where the DM no longer felt XP was necessary.

Exactly this.

Life is just too short and too crammed with options for me to run games for players who would prefer to do nothing and get away with it, much less try to train them into a different style of play. I prefer to play with people who get engaged in imaginary characters and worlds because becoming engaged is fun for them. In a way, it's sometimes more challenging to work out the sort of rewards they're most interested in -- owning a tavern, founding a Trade Union, making allies at each place they visit, wringing a favor from the head of a Great House or even a Prince -- but it's certainly more personally rewarding.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

One hopes that "DM's discretion" would take into account this kind of abuse. That said, playing this way (without XP) implies a high level of trust that the players will be engaged and act reasonably. That probably why you see a lot of responses of people who used XP and then dropped it; not so much because they learned one way was better but because they developed a comfort level with their group to where the DM no longer felt XP was necessary.

Not speaking for anyone else, but trust has nothing to do with it in our group. We trust each other, or we wouldn't have played this long. Right now, we are not using XP, because it doesn't do anything for the game we are playing. But that doesn't mean that we wouldn't use XP in a different game.

Generally, I've found with this group that they don't need much motivation to chase the activity that the game supposedly rewards, but they do need a little. We've discussed it explicitly, and they all pretty much agree. So if we want the game to be about pushing yourself to acquire power, then we need some kind of nod to an XP mechanic or the like. If we want the game to be about "being heroic" in adventures, however, we need a mechanic that rewards that, however slightly--and the leveling can take care of itself through whatever means is most expedient.

 

[Mallus]

But I also kept some things, of which by far the most important is this: if a PC did nothing in a given situation to earn experience then he doesn't get any for that situation. Period. And this is my beef with "level 'em when it suits" DMs: you're rewarding those who do nothing just as much as those who stick their necks out. Having played with players who would take shameless advantage of this were it possible, I'll never support it.

Having never played with people who do nothing, I mean, outside of a little garden-variety shyness, I've got a slightly different take

With my group, ditching XP just means saving myself needless bookkeeping. Everyone "sticks their neck out" ie participates and contributes. Maybe not equally each time we play, but it all averages out. We're a proactive and action-oriented lot. Plus some of use do funny voices --and by "some of us", I mainly mean "me".

I'm not "rewarding people for doing nothing", I'm rewarding them for their actions averaged together. I could track individual XP like I did back in the 2e-era; for each trap disarmed, orc bashed, soliloquy delivered, and quest accomplished. But why bother?

YMMV, of course.

FYI, I've never met a player who just wanted to safeguard their characters while collecting metagame currency, ie XP. The players I've known wanted to, well, play. To to do adventure-y things with their characters; exploring, looting, fighting, bad-mouthing NPC's, and setting flammable materials on fire.

Who wants to play a live-action version of Progress Quest? Even for a weird hobby that seems... weird. Is this a common experience?

 

[airwalkrr]

I generally use the XP system as presented in each system since the XP system usually says something about how a system is intended to be played and that is usually why I picked said system. For example, D&D supports XP for overcoming "challenges" which are usually combat challenges. D&D, regardless of edition, is about killing the monster and taking its stuff. So if I want to run a game that is mostly about killing the monster and taking its stuff, D&D is good for that. For another example, Palladium games are more about creating stories and the XP system reflects that. You get XP for having a good idea, even if it doesn't work. Palladium is designed to reward player ingenuity. So if I want to run a game about more roleplaying and less "gaming" then I like Palladium.

I might change the amounts awarded or amounts required to level, but I generally award XP the way the system proscribes.

 

[Rel]

I generally use the XP system as presented in each system since the XP system usually says something about how a system is intended to be played and that is usually why I picked said system. For example, D&D supports XP for overcoming "challenges" which are usually combat challenges. D&D, regardless of edition, is about killing the monster and taking its stuff. So if I want to run a game that is mostly about killing the monster and taking its stuff, D&D is good for that. For another example, Palladium games are more about creating stories and the XP system reflects that. You get XP for having a good idea, even if it doesn't work. Palladium is designed to reward player ingenuity. So if I want to run a game about more roleplaying and less "gaming" then I like Palladium.

I might change the amounts awarded or amounts required to level, but I generally award XP the way the system proscribes.

I find that pretty interesting. One of the first things I consider about a system is what happens if I un-couple it from its built in XP system. Because I often find that there is a difference (perhaps a small difference, perhaps a bigger one) between how my group would prefer to play and how the system rewards play. By discarding the methodology the game suggests for advancement I find that it liberates us to play more like we'd prefer.

Of course this also assumes that most other aspects of the game support our preferred playstyle too.

Just as an example, our last session was kind of on the short side. We had time for a combat near the beginning that wasn't terribly challenging. And then the rest of the session was spent with the party learning a lot of new information about some ideas they've been pursuing for a while. There were a few skill rolls involved but a lot of it was just hearing some explanations of things and asking questions of NPC's more knowledgeable than they were.

In D&D they'd have gotten very few XP for this under pretty much any edition I've played. But yet I felt like it was a pretty important session in terms of them planning where to go and what to do next. Even though the session was short, I had no qualms about advancing them one more session toward the next time they gain a "level". And everybody had a good time.

Again, I'm not downing those who use whatever XP system, official or otherwise, they choose to. I just don't think our session would have benefit from us having used XP.

 

[Lanefan]

FYI, I've never met a player who just wanted to safeguard their characters while collecting metagame currency, ie XP. The players I've known wanted to, well, play. To to do adventure-y things with their characters; exploring, looting, fighting, bad-mouthing NPC's, and setting flammable materials on fire.

I have.

Sure, they'll do all the exploring, looting, etc. when there's no real danger; but as soon as anything serious comes up ther's always a few particular characters (run by a few particular players) who are either way in the back or nowhere to be found. The rest of us take the risk.

Then again, our games tend to kill characters real good and dead - it's right there in the initial write-up everyone (in theory) reads when they join. But some just don't get the memo...

Lan-"6 times dead, 6 times revived"-efan

 

[pemerton]

I see character power-boost mechanics (including XP -> Level Up) as one of the core mechanics for driving the focus of play. With such a mechanic, you are almost sure to get the players either competing or cooperating in the challenge of doing whatever they get XP for to the maximum possible degree - thus getting rewarded with more powerful characters. For challenge-based play, this is great - exactly what you want, in fact. For collective world/setting/character exploration or collaborative storytelling, though, it is, at best, a distraction and, at worst, a disruptive and derailing influence.

This post touches on what I find interesting about 4e XP - it presents itself as a focus-driving mechanics, but when you look at it in detail, you see that it is not really about that at all (especially post-DMG2, with drama awards). It's just about regulating the rate of mechanical character development relative to real time played.

And as has frequently been noted, mechanical character development doesn't lead to "winning" the game, because of the assumptions in the system about scaling challenges.

So in fact the real rewards of 4e play have to come from engaging with the situation and the characters.

Just as an example, our last session was kind of on the short side. We had time for a combat near the beginning that wasn't terribly challenging. And then the rest of the session was spent with the party learning a lot of new information about some ideas they've been pursuing for a while. There were a few skill rolls involved but a lot of it was just hearing some explanations of things and asking questions of NPC's more knowledgeable than they were.

In D&D they'd have gotten very few XP for this under pretty much any edition I've played.

In 4e, this is the sort of stuff that can earn quest and drama XP. I had a similar sort of session that I posted about here, including how I handled XP for it.