Rules that would be realistic, but be a real drag to have to use

[Walking Paradox]

I was re-reading GURPS Martial Arts for GURPS 4th Edition recently and I read their rules for damage to hands; not only can a character take crippling damage from punching an opponent who wears solid armour or from being parried by a weapon-wielder, but even punching somebody in the head could cause that person to take damage unless his hands are protected in some way. (Interestingly, the book says that boxing gloves were invented as much to prevent damage to hands as they were to prevent damage to the person being punched; and that this is why boxers go for the head so often, an example of the law of unintended consequences.)

That rule might be realistic (and let's assume for the sake of argument that it is), but it would be no fun to play. Who wants to spend a boatload of points on unarmed fighting skills (plus techniques and supplementary skills) if using that skill is liable to get your hands and feet wrecked?

I am not going to go down the road of debating "cinematic vs. realistic" or "simulationist vs. dramatist" here, because that debate is old. What I am more interested in hearing is what other rules would be realistic to have in an RPG, but be absolutely no fun or too cumbersome to play?

 

[Dice4Hire]

How about rules for the consequences of being knocked below 0 hit points multiple times, ala NFL concussions, broken bones, torn ligaments, etc putting players in wheelchairs in later life.

 

[DangerAbe]

Any rule that really replicated what being hit by an axe or a sword would actually be like would be no good.

 

[jonesy]

Phoenix Command. The whole thing.

It was an attempt to make rules which simulated as realistically as possible what happened to people in combat. As a result it is complex enough to be almost completely unplayable. The rules work, it just takes aeons to use them.

 

[Nebten]

In AD&D 2nd ed, the optional rule about Weapon type vs Armor Modifier. While certian weapons probably do better against specific types of armor, it just is another layer of rule text you need to muddle through to get to the end result. Then again, it was optional.

 

[Heathen72]

What I am more interested in hearing is what other rules would be realistic to have in an RPG, but be absolutely no fun or too cumbersome to play?

Since you (kind of) brought it up - Encumbrance.

Oh, and in the interest of preserving the illusion that we play heroes, I agree that we should avoid any rule that even suggests that our characters might do what we as players generally do if we bang our fingers or see a spider.

I say this mainly because there is no greater or more enjoyable irony than when a player - who has just declared in his best Clint Eastwood voice that he ignores the 40 HP of pain from the spear to his side - cries out in pain because he got a paper cut from looking up his fort save. It is as gloriously delicious a sight to behold as that of the player of the world's toughest, roughest barbarian squealing like a little girl at the sight of a cockroach.

Suffice to say that the player was not a little girl.

 

[Aeolius]

What I am more interested in hearing is what other rules would be realistic to have in an RPG, but be absolutely no fun or too cumbersome to play?

How about a supplement detailing the digestive system?
( I suppose that would make it a dietary supplement )

 

[Hautamaki]

Since you (kind of) brought it up - Encumbrance.

Oh, and in the interest of preserving the illusion that we play heroes, I agree that we should avoid any rule that even suggests that our characters might do what we as players generally do if we bang our fingers or see a spider.

I say this mainly because there is no greater or more enjoyable irony than when a player - who has just declared in his best Clint Eastwood voice that he ignores the 40 HP of pain from the spear to his side - cries out in pain because he got a paper cut looking up his fort save. It is as gloriously delicious a sight to behold as that of the player of the world's toughest, roughest barbarian squealing like a little girl at the sight of a cockroach.

Suffice to say that the player was not a little girl.

I have the opposite problem. I'm a former professional fighter and one of my players is currently training for his next fight. We rolled up first level characters for a new adventure and after a few combats he goes 'this sucks, I could kick my character's ass if we fought in real life' lol. Which is probably true... as a pro fighter with years of training and several real fights under his belt I figure he'd probably be higher than level 1. At least gaining levels in the game is a matter of sessions and not real life years =p

 

[Puggins]

Phoenix Command. The whole thing.

It was an attempt to make rules which simulated as realistically as possible what happened to people in combat. As a result it is complex enough to be almost completely unplayable. The rules work, it just takes aeons to use them.

I have to disagree on the time, but I totally agree regarding playability. Phoenix Command was really no more complicated than Rolemaster. Though tons of people (including me) think that Rolemaster offers far too much complication for very little return, I can say with experience that Rolemaster is perfectly playable, especially given the modern sensibility regarding fight length.

In terms of playability, though.... hoo boy. Four of us decided to give Phoenix Command a whirl by simulating a fire fight. We each took one corner of a battlemat, populated most of the board with some light cover and went at it with reasonably skilled mercs in a four-way firefight. If any of us ran out of ammo, we would have to run to the center of the board and pick up more from an ammo dump we put there.

I got first turn and I took a quick move to squat behind some cover. The guy to my left was still in the open and was about 30 yards away. I decided now was as good a time as any to try out the firing mechanics, so I squeezed off a 3-round burst from my M-16. I rolled slightly above average- nothing too impressive.

I blew his brains out- literally. He took 10,000 hit points to the head (we each started with less than 20, if I recall correctly), giving him a quarter second of life before he slumped over dead. There are rules telling you how long before someone dies given the amount of damage they took- given sufficiently advanced medicine, you can save someone whose brains have been blown out. Of course, the medical tech level necessary was the equivalent of WAY past star trek:tng, but they have rules for it!

Another guy tried shooting his at full-auto at me- didn't work very well, since I was behind cover. He ran out and sprinted to the dump, at which point the fourth guy sprayed HIM with full-auto and left him a bloody, lifeless pulp.

We decided to try another game for modern warfare- one that didn't involve being killed the first time you tried something even halfway cinematic.

 

[Heathen72]

I have the opposite problem. I'm a former professional fighter and one of my players is currently training for his next fight. We rolled up first level characters for a new adventure and after a few combats he goes 'this sucks, I could kick my character's ass if we fought in real life' lol. Which is probably true... as a pro fighter with years of training and several real fights under his belt I figure he'd probably be higher than level 1. At least gaining levels in the game is a matter of sessions and not real life years =p

LOL, I'd love to see your group play. You'd just need rules on how to play your characters as nerdy weaklings sitting around a table telling stories to each other, and the picture would be complete!*

*especially if you were actually dressed like Norse Metal Rockers from the 1980's. Including Big frizzy blonde hair!