Searing Light

[kitcik]

Cats top out at about 60 mph. (Please ask how I know this.)

How do you know this?

 

[Greenfield]

How do you know this?

I asked you not to ask me that...

I read an article a few years back about a cat that fell from an upper floor of a tall building. It waled away with nothing more than some sore muscles and a chipped tooth.

The article explained how cats handle long falls, spreading out like a skydiver, then bringing their feet down at the last moment to absorb the impact.

It also mentioned that cats reach terminal velocity at about 60 mph, so any fall of over 60 feet or so is equally survivable. 90% survival rate at that height, and better than a 50/50 chance of walking away with little or no injury.

 

[Greenfield]

Sorry, that's what I meant by critical mass. Very different, I know. My point was that this creates an object with a large amount of kinetic energy. The energy could be transferred to the mirror array by either collision (preferably with a wall of force attached to the array as not to cause damage to the array itself) or some sort of net hooked up to pull the array.

The Wall of Force would stop the object cold without transferring any of its energy to the array. Immovable and all that.

In any case, once the array is moving at whatever "terminal velocity" you manage to achieve, your redirected projectiles won't catch it to accelerate it any farther.

Same issue with the Gust of Wind. A wind that moves at 50 mph can't push your array any faster than that, no matter how many times you apply it, nor what intermediate object you bring in. The spell deals with velocities as an absolute value.

It's one of the problems with trying to mix magic and physics. Magic presumes absolutes, and physics doesn't recognize that there are any. No "unmoving" point in space, no absolute reference for speed, none of that.

The idea that gravity is negligible in space is just plain wrong. Currently the only way we get into space is by achieving orbital velocity, so the common perception is that once you're there, you're weightless. You aren't. You're in free fall, with gravity pulling you so hard that you have to have thousands of miles per hour of lateral movement to let you "miss" the planet. (i.e. orbital velocity). Without that velocity you'll come down hard and fast, and leave a fiery trail across the sky as you burn up on re-entry.

2000 lbs at level 20, and it's only a 2nd level spell. It could be cast multiple times on different parts of the station, or a higher level spell could be created that could handle more weight.

Oddly, the spell doesn't say you can apply X amount of lift. It says it levitates an object of up to X pounds. The spell can't affect aheavier object at all.

Again, magic doesn't always work the way gut-level physics suggests that it should. It deals in absolutes. In any case, the idea of stacking a spell effect with itself is already addressed in the rules, and it's a no-no.

This exposes one of the major flaws with certain types of magic in a fantasy world. When an object is made immobile, it becomes immobile in relation to what?

In relation to whatever the DM says. And that's really the only answer there can be, in the end.

Consider the simple spell Lightning Bolt. Explain how, in a world where physics are somehow secretly there, one can direct electricity by pointing a finger? The discharge would arc to the nearest grounded object (probably the caster), not blast outwards simply because a bony digit happened to be pointing in that direction.

Physics says explicitly that matter can be neither created nor destroyed. Reconcile that with Wall of Stone and Disintegrate.

Can't be done, can it?

So, while thought experiments can be fun, trying to selectively decide which game rules and physical laws apply and which ones don't isn't so much a thought experiment as a daydream.

 

[mirrorcoloured]

The Wall of Force would stop the object cold without transferring any of its energy to the array. Immovable and all that.

I remembered that afterward. I guess you'd need some sort of self-replenishing Wall of Stone/Iron since it would wear away. Your other point makes that negligible anyway though, nice call.

The idea that gravity is negligible in space is just plain wrong. Currently the only way we get into space is by achieving orbital velocity, so the common perception is that once you're there, you're weightless. You aren't. You're in free fall, with gravity pulling you so hard that you have to have thousands of miles per hour of lateral movement to let you "miss" the planet. (i.e. orbital velocity). Without that velocity you'll come down hard and fast, and leave a fiery trail across the sky as you burn up on re-entry.

It depends on how far away you are. At an orbital elevation you're still very strongly affected by the giant mass of a planet below you. Once you're far enough away from any planets the sum of forces acting upon you will be close to zero.

Physics says explicitly that matter can be neither created nor destroyed. Reconcile that with Wall of Stone and Disintegrate.

Matter can be changed though. Maybe it affects the molecules at an atomic level to turn them into different elements (drawing from other things nearby)?

 

[TanisFrey]

Falling objects reach a "terminal velocity", where the speed loss from air resistance matches the speed increase from gravity. This is usually around 125 mph for something with mass and air resistance of a human body. Cats top out at about 60 mph. (Please don't ask how I know this.) Nothing approaches the thousands of miles per hour needed for a stable orbit at Lunar distances. Lower orbits need higher speeds.

I asked you not to ask me that...

I read an article a few years back about a cat that fell from an upper floor of a tall building. It waled away with nothing more than some sore muscles and a chipped tooth.

The article explained how cats handle long falls, spreading out like a skydiver, then bringing their feet down at the last moment to absorb the impact.

It also mentioned that cats reach terminal velocity at about 60 mph, so any fall of over 60 feet or so is equally survivable. 90% survival rate at that height, and better than a 50/50 chance of walking away with little or no injury.

This it true. My father is a vet, I use to work at his clinic.

The most dangerous falls for cats are from ~10 to 25 feet. This is about one or two stories of a typical building. The reason is that distance is long enough to do serious damage and that cats do not have the time to right themselves in time to land.

 

[Pergentile]

"The Earth isn't hiding. Spot checks aren't required."
LOL! Next goal after deathstar... giving the earth sentience so it can make hide checks... XD

 

[Rakusia]

dont tell the druids it doesnt have it already

 

[Greenfield]

It depends on how far away you are. At an orbital elevation you're still very strongly affected by the giant mass of a planet below you. Once you're far enough away from any planets the sum of forces acting upon you will be close to zero.

Which explains why comets never leave the oort cloud, they just stay out there and never come where anyone can see them. Right?

Sorry, but no. Without a good point of reference free fall might seem like weightlessness, but it's an illusion. For any of the distances we're talking about, gravity is still there, doing its thing. If it wasn't we wouldn't be worrying about maintaining orbital velocities.

Matter can be changed though. Maybe it affects the molecules at an atomic level to turn them into different elements (drawing from other things nearby)?

In which case the entire idea of using Wall of Stone to turn a boulder you can teleport with into small moon gets tossed out the window.

Now, let's start over on this project. How to get an orbital platform...

Start by making a lot oc calculations you have no data for, and conclude that at 22,500 miles up an object in stable orbit will circle the world once every 24 hours. Next, grab your boulder and teleport 22,500 miles up. Since you had no motion relative to the planet (we have to use some frame of reference, after all) you'll land with none, meaning that you are now in geosynchronous orbit. You'll have to start at the equator, of course, but that's a relatively small thing.

Option 2: Take your boulder and teleport a few thousand miles straight up. Quickly levitate it so it doesn't fall. Now uncork the 12 Decanters of Endless Water you just happened to have with you and point them all in one direction. Set each to "Geyser", which forces 3,500 gallons per minute out that tiny aperature. These are your orbital thrusters. and they never run out of fuel.

Presuming you can maintain the Levitate long enough, you'll eventually achieve an orbital velocity. Of course ridiculous calculations will be required to know when you've reached that speed, based on observational data you really can't have, but that's a detail.

Now expand your little rock into a real palace in the sky, build your mirror array out of all the sand that you forgot to bring with you, and rule a world you can never safely return to.

Oh yeah, did we forget that little detail? Teleporting home will caus a "crash and burn" landing that would make Steve Austin proud. You'll hit at orbital velocity, probably doing more damage than your mirror array would.

As a note: The Teleport Circle trick to create a gravity accelerator wouldn't work, even if you did it in space where terminal velocity wasn't an issue. No matter which way you "face" the circle, you aren't aiming the object. It's a tansmitter with no receiver, and it's the receiver that would need to be aimed.

On a general note, I'll still argue whether you can Teleport to a location based on distance and direction, rather than actually knowing it. It's not allowed by the spell description, and getting to "know" one particular location in empty space, with no reference points available, just wouldn't be possible, IMHO. Of course, that's just me. Other DM's might be more permissive. I would like to see you try though.

Player: "Teleport to the Moon!"

DM: "Hmm. you get 100 miles per level, and the moon is 231,000 miles away? So when did you reach level 2,310, and why didn't I know about it?"

There's no challenge to the project if you figure to break the rules. Doing it within the rules, however, now there's an accomplishment.

 

[Dandu]

Oh yeah, did we forget that little detail? Teleporting home will caus a "crash and burn" landing that would make Steve Austin proud. You'll hit at orbital velocity, probably doing more damage than your mirror array would.

Actually, it is unclear what happens to momentum during a teleport. If we assume that it is conserved and you teleport down to earth with orbital velocity, you could just cast Feather Fall on yourself.

On a general note, I'll still argue whether you can Teleport to a location based on distance and direction, rather than actually knowing it. It's not allowed by the spell description, and getting to "know" one particular location in empty space, with no reference points available, just wouldn't be possible, IMHO.

You can cast Overland Flight and just fly up if this is really an issue.

Of course, that's just me. Other DM's might be more permissive. I would like to see you try though.

Player: "Teleport to the Moon!"

DM: "Hmm. you get 100 miles per level, and the moon is 231,000 miles away? So when did you reach level 2,310, and why didn't I know about it?"

Maybe if he used the Greater Teleport spell.

"This spell functions like teleport, except that there is no range limit and there is no chance you arrive off target. In addition, you need not have seen the destination, but in that case you must have at least a reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting. If you attempt to teleport with insufficient information (or with misleading information), you disappear and simply reappear in your original location. Interplanar travel is not possible."

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

On a general note, I'll still argue whether you can Teleport to a location based on distance and direction, rather than actually knowing it. It's not allowed by the spell description, and getting to "know" one particular location in empty space, with no reference points available, just wouldn't be possible, IMHO. Of course, that's just me. Other DM's might be more permissive. I would like to see you try though.

Player: "Teleport to the Moon!"

DM: "Hmm. you get 100 miles per level, and the moon is 231,000 miles away? So when did you reach level 2,310, and why didn't I know about it?"

Both of those objections are solved by greater teleport.

This spell functions like teleport, except that there is no range limit and there is no chance you arrive off target. In addition, you need not have seen the destination, but in that case you must have at least a reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting.

I'd say "231,000 miles straight up," "that particular crater on the moon," and similar would be considered reliable descriptions.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Dandu.