Searing Light

[Alexander123]

Have not found a copy in my local bookstore, because that is the only way I ever get DnD books.
<.<
>.>
Yeah, the only way.

This is kind of OT so I'll try to keep it short but have you tried amazon? You can find great deals there and many books are cheaper there than if you were to buy them at the LGS.

 

[Greenfield]

greenfield do i really need to take the time to distroy and remove all your ideas of why this wouldn't work or can i say simply

fantasy game an any wizerd can alter his spells in any way if he only cares to spend some time doing it

I guess it depends on how much you care to fantasize now, doesn't it?

I've seen comments in here about using Spellcraft to change spells on the fly. I'm not sure if that's a house rule someplace or if it's actually in one of the books.

According to what I know, you need Feats to do that sort of thing, and there isn't always a Feat for whatever change someone might like.

I went to ridiculous extremes to show how foolish it was to try and mix magic and physics. And yes, I really meant "ridiculous", because the whole thing really is.

You want to make a geosynchronous floating platform? Use the old Floating Castle trick, where you suspend the entire thing from a Forcecage or Wall of Force made permanent. (The cage is better, structurally, since it has horizontal faces, and can be made in the laticework fashion so you can hook things on and meld them in/through it. Wall is cheaper to make Permanent.)

That eliminates half of his issues with physics.

As far as I know, you can't get Aid Another bonuses on crafting via a Fabricate spell, since nobody else can actually work on the item being crafted. And as a DM I'd cast an Epic level Dispel Bullspit on having Unseen Servants make any kind of Craft skill check, but that's up to the individual DM. Also, the argument about using Moment of Prescience on a Craft roll? It's only applicable to opposed skill checks, according to the SRD. So that +65 to the Craft check to make those mirrors just got a whole lot less.

But let's say all of this is somehow handled. You're only 200 miles up, which is nothing in terms of orbital distances (Normal Geosynchronous is 22,500 miles up). You have a mirror array the size of Delaware, and you have an army of loyal critters who can survive without air, and can "hear" your orders somehow, and are allowed to make attack rolls (unlike the Unseen Servants originally described.). They're all proficient with Heliograph Weaponry, and all your Mirror's are masterworked.

So you place your Eyes of the Eagle over your eyes, and look for your target, Spamalot Castle! Want to figure the Spot penalties from 200 miles, even with the Eyes?

So yeah, go ahead and tell me how wrong my various calculations are, how they somehow don't apply, or show me the rules that say this will all work. I'm betting you actually can't.

I have a counter, you see.

You deliver the ultimatum, "Surrender or fry!"

My caster (Only 17th, since I have to be in the inferior position for the threat to work) has to come up with an answer. He uses his Rod of Maximize (Greater), and his Ring of Evasion, his Necklace of Adaptation, and the Delay Spell feat.

Cast Time Stop (Maximized), then Greater Teleport to your platform. Delay Spell on Greater Creation, to create 17 cubic feet of weapon's grade Plutonium, set to appear in 4 rounds (which is after my Time Stop has expired).

17 cubic feet of fissionable material is so much more than a supercritical mass, it would produce a nuclear explosion larger than anything ever seen. You, your minions, your mirror array, your platform, all converted to a rapidly expanding cloud of radioactive vapor. That the matter that triggered this is only temporary is of little importance. It only had to exist for the few milliseconds needed for the chain reaction.

Now, using my Ring of Evasion and Moment of Prescience, I could do without the Time Stop and Delay Spell, and simply appear then nuke you. 95% chance I'd survive (just don't roll a 1), but why take the chance?

And if 17 cubic feet of Plutonium isn't enough, I could use Sudden Widen to multiply that by 8. (Yeah, I know it doesn't work that way for this spell, but since actual rules got tossed out before the platform got created, ignoring them here seems a fitting way to destroy it.)

Like I said, it all depends on how much you want to fantasize.

 

[Dandu]

Also, the argument about using Moment of Prescience on a Craft roll? It's only applicable to opposed skill checks, according to the SRD. So that +65 to the Craft check to make those mirrors just got a whole lot less.

I would just like to get to this one first, since it is the most egregious flaw in your argument.

Moment of Prescience

Divination

Level: Luck 8, Sor/Wiz 8 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 hour/level or until discharged This spell grants you a powerful sixth sense in relation to yourself. Once during the spell’s duration, you may choose to use its effect. This spell grants you an insight bonus equal to your caster level (maximum +25) on any single attack roll, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, you can apply the insight bonus to your AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesn’t take an action; you can even activate it on another character’s turn if needed. You must choose to use the moment of prescience before you make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the spell ends.
You can’t have more than one moment of prescience active on you at the same time.

It explicitly states in the spell description that it works on skill checks. Now, not everyone combs over the spell in detail, but even the brief description in the PHB and SRD states that

Moment of Prescience: You gain insight bonus on single attack roll, check, or save.

I don't think it's too much to ask of you to check your facts before posting.

So you place your Eyes of the Eagle over your eyes, and look for your target, Spamalot Castle! Want to figure the Spot penalties from 200 miles, even with the Eyes?

Wish I could. Would take a Miracle.

So yeah, go ahead and tell me how wrong my various calculations are, how they somehow don't apply, or show me the rules that say this will all work. I'm betting you actually can't.

I think some of the issues arise due to your not understanding how things in DnD work, as evidenced by your misconceptions about Moment of Prescience.

Seriously, looking it up on the SRD takes 65 seconds.

I have a counter, you see.

You deliver the ultimatum, "Surrender or fry!"

My caster (Only 17th, since I have to be in the inferior position for the threat to work) has to come up with an answer. He uses his Rod of Maximize (Greater), and his Ring of Evasion, his Necklace of Adaptation, and the Delay Spell feat.

Cast Time Stop (Maximized), then Greater Teleport to your platform. Delay Spell on Greater Creation, to create 17 cubic feet of weapon's grade Plutonium, set to appear in 4 rounds (which is after my Time Stop has expired).

Hold on. You spend all this time criticizing a giant orbital mirror... and then summon plutonium (presumably the specific isotope Plutonium-240), a substance that does not exist in DnD, and which your character also has no means of knowing about?

 

[Greenfield]

Actually, if you check the placement of commas, you'll see that Moment of Prescience applies to "opposed ability or skill checks". All one clause. Opposed checks, not just any checks.

Read it as written, not just the way you wish it was written.

Regarding the Spot Check: You'd need to cast a Miracle or Wish for every one of your minions to be able to see their target.

Regarding the Attack Roll: Each mirror would have to make a separate attack roll.

Regarding the Plutonium: It's as valid as the idea of an orbital platform.

Regarding doing it as a geosynchronous platform: Sidereal motion still applies. That is, the sun is shifting across the sky, even if the planet isn't shifting beneath you, so your targeting system need to compensate for this constantly.

Regarding the idea of replicating technology with magic: Can you use Magic to mass produce Magic items? Obviously not. Technology can be used to mass produce technology, however, so I'll argue that the two aren't interchangeable.

In summation, while it's theoretically possible to come up with enough Wishes, Miracles and Limited Wishes to make it work, you'd end up spending so much money/exp that it would have been easier to just wish for your own kingdom.

Regarding time travel calculations and Intelligence: There are these things called Skills. Perhaps you've heard of them? Many are "trained only". Including some Knowledge skills. That means that, no matter what Ability modifier you care to apply, you still can't do it unless you actually have the skill. So you can't just presume, "A 34 Int can do anything".

Regarding starships, computers and Spock: If you're going to bring in gear from other settings, why not just bring in the Enterprise, and use the Phaser banks instead of your unworkable mirror array? I mean, once you start ignoreing the rules, why be a piker about it? Go all the way.

Here's a thought: Next time you want to try a thought experiment within a game setting, try giving a thought to the actual rules of that game. Doing things within the rules is what makes them a challenge. Ignoring the rules just makes it line noise on the internet.

 

[Dandu]

Actually, if you check the placement of commas, you'll see that Moment of Prescience applies to "opposed ability or skill checks". All one clause. Opposed checks, not just any checks.

Read it as written, not just the way you wish it was written.

My sincerest apologies for misunderstanding the spell. Fortunately there are many ways of boosting skill checks.

Masochoism is a second level arcane spell in the BoVD that gives a +1 boost to attacks, saves, and skill checks for every 10 damage taken. There are several ways of becoming immune to death from damage, such as via Shapechange into something with regeneration (lethal damage becomes nonlethal) + Favor of the Martyr (immunity to nonlethal), and ways of taking large amounts of damage/infinite damage (teleport into the sun? Share Pain+ Glory of the Martyr infinite damage loop?) achieving a very high skill check isn't impossible.

Assuming we play by the rules, of course.

Regarding the Spot Check: You'd need to cast a Miracle or Wish for every one of your minions to be able to see their target.

Really depends on what we're using. Single mirror would work better. If it's an array, a scope of some sort would be best for each individual mirror station. That method would entail the use of sentient minions, though.

Regarding the Plutonium: It's as valid as the idea of an orbital platform.

That's something of a cop out, isn't it?

Also somewhat less valid, as mirrors, moons, and etc exist in DnD, whereas plutonium never has.

In summation, while it's theoretically possible to come up with enough Wishes, Miracles and Limited Wishes to make it work, you'd end up spending so much money/exp that it would have been easier to just wish for your own kingdom.

I suppose you'd have told Dr. Evil to focus on building up the investments of Evil Industries instead of hatching an overly complicated and unnecessarily expensive way of holding the world hostage for a relatively small amount of money?

Regarding time travel calculations and Intelligence: There are these things called Skills. Perhaps you've heard of them? Many are "trained only". Including some Knowledge skills. That means that, no matter what Ability modifier you care to apply, you still can't do it unless you actually have the skill. So you can't just presume, "A 34 Int can do anything".

Int 34... and Knowledge: (any) as class skills.

 

[kitcik]

I am the DM...

... and my ruling is that the Orbital Eye of Mass Destruction...


< please send $1.00 to my Paypal account, thedmlikescash[MENTION=41255]dnd[/MENTION]profits.com, to receive the actual ruling >

 

[Greenfield]

My sincerest apologies for misunderstanding the spell. Fortunately there are many ways of boosting skill checks.

Hey, it happens. We're all guilty of that at one time or another.

Masochoism is a second level arcane spell in the BoVD that gives a +1 boost to attacks, saves, and skill checks for every 10 damage taken. There are several ways of becoming immune to death from damage, at least for a while, such as via Beastland Ferocity + Delay Death or Shapechange into something with regeneration + Favor of the Martyr, iirc, and ways of taking large amounts of damage/infinite damage (teleport into the sun? Share Pain+ Glory of the Martyr infinite damage loop?) achieving a very high skill check isn't impossible.

Assuming we play by the rules, of course.

Well played.

Really depends on what we're using. Single mirror would work better. If it's an array, a scope of some sort would be best for each individual mirror station. That method would entail the use of sentient minions, though.

Even given the bonus from a spyglass (funniest 1,000 gp item in the book), it wouldn't make enough of a difference.

And working a single mirror would come back to crafting one with just the right curvature. You'd also need to have a STR beyond godlike to work it. Hmm, can you stack Monkey Grip feats? It is, after all, just a few size categories larger than the character.

That's something of a cop out, isn't it?

Also somewhat less valid, as mirrors, moons, and etc exist in DnD, whereas plutonium never has.

Does the concept of "orbit" exist? Or is the starry sky actually the inside of the night goddess' cloak?

The whole idea of the world orbiting a star, instead of having the sun god riding across the sky daily, it actually not part of any of the D&D settings, other than Spelljammer.

That, by the way, is how you get things up into orbit. Use a Spelljammer ship.

You do realize that the stated goal was to do something in an incredibly inefficient way, right?

Must have missed that one.

Int 34... and Knowledge: (any) as class skills.

Means you can have the skills in class. Doesn't mean you can use them untrained.

I liked the note that someone tossed in about applying momentum rules to the idea of expanding a boulder under Shrink Item. Don't make me get out my hamster cannon!

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being a hard nose here. First, I freely admit that I don't own all the books, nor am I as familiar with many of the spells and feats as many others here. I am, in fact, a bit of a grognard w/regards to all the various rules and setting expansions.

I used to attend a game club populated, nay, infested with munchkins. Kids who thought that their beyond-godlike characters were real, being 50+ levels in five or six classes at once. And that was back in 1st/2nd Ed, where 50 levels really meant something.

They'd try to join non-munchkin games and I'd have to dissect their many rules violations over and over again. It got to be a habit.

So I'm sorry if I came across as a bastitch.

 

[Dandu]

Even given the bonus from a spyglass (funniest 1,000 gp item in the book), it wouldn't make enough of a difference.

That's why you build a better telescope.

And working a single mirror would come back to crafting one with just the right curvature. You'd also need to have a STR beyond godlike to work it.

About that...

Does the concept of "orbit" exist? Or is the starry sky actually the inside of the night goddess' cloak?

Nailed to the Sky indicates that some form of orbit does exist.

Means you can have the skills in class. Doesn't mean you can use them untrained.

So assign some skill points (Psychic Reformation would allow this) and call it a day.

So I'm sorry if I came across as a bastitch.

I'm over it.

 

[Greenfield]

Better telescope, eh? But where shall we build it...

<don's top hat with steam-punk goggles>
I know! At the center of the earth, the heat will easily provide a furnace of sufficient power, and if all the mass is around us, then all of it should be pulling outwards at equal force, so we'll be in a null-gravity zone. You can make wonderful things in such a place, completely free of micro-stress fractures that come from gravitational forces.

But to get there we'll first need a boring machine! To the workshop!
<removes hat>

Okay, that machine is boring enough. Let's not add yet another fantasy genre to the mix, eh?

Consider this as a thought experiment.

There are, in the D&D multiverse, an infinite number of planes, including an equally infinite number of "prime material" planes.

Understanding that "infinite" doesn't simply mean "a really large number", we can realize/speculate that someplace out there, absolutely anything is true. Someplace out there exist worlds in which every lie we've ever told, every dream we've ever dreamed, every story we've ever heard, are all true. Maybe even all true at the same time!

So the goal shouldn't be to conquer your neighbor or rule your world, since someplace out there you've already succeeded. And, in fact, someplace out there, you've not only succeeded, but the "you" of that world is conveniently missing.

So your goal shouldn't be to change the world, but rather to change worlds, to find the one that exactly conforms to your dreams and ambitions, a world where you get the girl and she doesn't press charges, where you not only get to rule the world, but have an admin assistant capable of taking care of all the unpleasant details, leaving you with nothing but the fun parts.

So, what's the DC for the Knowledge Planes skill check? How many bumps can we add, and how do we add them?

 

[Pergentile]

"a world where you get the girl and she doesn't press charges"
lol

First post seriously needs to be edited. Regardless of all the back and forth points, I think everyone discussing this agrees that, although this might be too "sciency" for some campaigns, it is indeed possible. The number of calculations/variables have ways of being dealt with/restricted. More than just the caster himself to both work on this thing and "fire" it were logically shown to be unessesary. This is indeed a possible project for a single high level caster, not even required to be of epic level. Someone with a good spell list in their head needs to put the spells to this thing.
1a. Teleport to space a very specific distance away from the planet.
1b. Get to the right speed to stay in orbit above a specific point.
2. Construct curved mirror, facing away from the planet (so it isn't seen). Construct a focus lens.
3. Using a latticework of some acceptable material (force?), connect a focusing lens to the mirror to merge all of the light into a single deadly ray.
4. Move the construct to the right place and turn it to shwoop da whoop the desired target.

It is reasonable that aiming the device would be like aiming any ranged weapon, with a critical fail (weapon breaking from accidentally moving it incorrectly enough that it plummets to earth and takes damage entering the atmosphere) and a roll of 20 meaning success, while every other roll would have it miss by certain degrees (a matter of 1 kilometer per miss of 20 (15=5km offtarget, 11=9, etc.)?).