In what ways would it actually be good for WotC to support 3pps: a brainstorm.

[Aberzanzorax]

In this thread, http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpg-industry-forum/302466-open-letter-wizards-coast-chris-dias.html , which has become more about analysis of the letter than about a brainstorm of possible reasons why WotC should or should not support third party publishers (3pps), I tried to come up with a few reasons why it MIGHT (again, it may not, or the boat may have sailed) but why it MIGHT be a good reason for WotC to support third party publishers (3pps).

I'm looking to see what reasons people might have why it would, and this is important: Benefit WotC to support 3pps.

I'm not looking for why it would benefit 3pps, as I think that's a given for most (it's usually nice to get support from a larger and more powerful company). Instead, I am looking for reasons why WotC should support 3pps (as well as hearing any disagreement with those reasons...but not for reasons why 3pps would benefit from WotC doing so.). EDIT: I'd also be interested in why WotC should NOT support 3pps or should withdraw support.


From that thread, here are three of my own possible reasons why they might support 3pps:

<snip>

1. Goodwill. Many people don't like WotC right now, and PAIZO has a ton of goodwill. Sure, lots of people don't decide on what to buy based on goodwill, but some DO. Heck, there's not really that much I want from ENworld at the moment (EDIT: apart from the great discussion I already get for free, so would not gain by paying/END EDIT.), but I keep almost purchasing a membership based solely upon goodwill. (To Morrus, the main barrier is actually the monthly sub of $3...I'd more happily pay an annual fee of $36.)

2. Draw in people that want to play other worlds. If the producers of, say Oathbound, or Arcanis, or Iron Kingdoms thought that they could make money in 4e, they just might draw in some sales for themselves and more importantly draw in customers to switch to this newfangled 4e thingy.

3. Market perceptions. There has been (and will likely continue to be) debate about if PAIZO is getting to be as big of a market force as WotC. We've all seen the government carefully use the word "recession" and never "depression" because people's market perceptions affect spending. Further, "market leader" can mean much more than "total sales" in terms of volume or profit. Market leader can mean total assets (which includes goodwill and partnership). Market leader can mean that they are actually leading others; that are others following them. We are beginning to see WotC as no longer the market leader in that sense.

Market leader can also mean "power to control the market". I posit that, as things are now, should WotC change to 5e in two years that they will have very very few 3pps moving with them. This will likely affect the number of freelancers interested in learning the system as well as affect goodwill and customer interest in 3pp IP as "not synergistic" with their system. On the other hand, should, in two years, PAIZO release Second Edition Pathfinder, I would imagine quite a few of the PATHFINDER OGL companies will follow.

 

[jefgorbach]

Your second bullet would likely be the key point from WOTC's viewpoint ... since 4e does not have a publicly posted freely available SRD, any 3pp derivative/alternative settings would by necessity need to refer to WOTC's core/supplemental books, thereby potentially increasing their own sales by bringing player's not interested in the core setting back into the fold.

Another idea would be to RPGize Hasbro's other "miniature" lines such as GI Joe, Transformers, etc.

 

[Dark Mistress]

There is the fact 3pp can make niche products that are not popular enough for someone like WotC to make but that some people would like. If those get made those people are more likely to keep playing the game. I know that was very true for me in 3.x If not for 3pp support I wouldn't have bought nearly as much DnD or played it as much. Since I would have been forced to play other games to find other niches.

 

[ThickSkullAdv]

Interesting question indeed. I’ll play backseat marketing guy and make some assumptions as to the “Vision Statement” WotC has for D&D as brand, and strategies to meet that vision. Grab a cold one as I wax poetic…

For sake of simplicity, let’s assume WotC has the following Vision for D&D: “Create the world’s best-known gaming brand admired for excellence in quality and value.” (Vision statements are supposed to be bold, right?) I have no idea what WotC vision/mission statement actually is, but I presume it’s something in that ballpark. Notice how that might not necessarily be the most popular game, or even limited to role-playing games.

I actually believe that WotC is indeed focused on quality (at least in their print products, which have some of the finest production in the business). And as far as value, their Core Rulebooks are comparably priced to some of their competitors. And for sake of simplicity we also have to assume their biz model includes making as much $$ as possible strategies that will support the vision to do so.

So, we now have to assume that 3pp are part of the strategy to achieve that vision.

In this instance, WotC would need to control the core product very closely, but give 3pp a way to distribute product with enforced quality that helps makes the core product more valuable. This would be similar to Apple’s model where they’re totally in control of iPods/IPads hardware, but create a “software app store” for 3pp which has stringent quality requirements. The benefit: WotC maintains all the core rules, but the 3PP makes the core rules more valuable by building products. The goal being: people will buy more books if there are more adventures, more campaign settings, etc., and they all work together consistently. The more core rulebooks out there, would thereby make the brand more ubiquitous helping to make it “…the worlds’ best known.” Without some sort of quality requirements, however, you might see the value diminished with glut of low-quality accessory products (think the dark days of the Atari 2600 cartridges…)

¬So, all of that said, it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at WotC strategy meetings, for given my very limited perspective I would guess their current strategy is less focused on print looks something more like:

1. Predictable revenue stream through subscription
2. Mitigate uncertainty in print market by expanding online presence
3. Simplify the game

My basis for guessing this would be based on their investment in DDI (continuing to enhance, provide new content, and reconfigure to make multi-platform) as well as their re-editing content as part of Essentials. In this instance, assuming the “quality 3PP helps sell core product” holds true(core product in this case being DDI or Essentials) they’d need to be figuring out a way open up DDI with customizable content with quality controls.

Anyway, food for thought. Thanks for hanging in there through the long post.

 

[dmccoy1693]

3. Market perceptions.

[snip]

Market leader can also mean "power to control the market".

This is the real key figure as far as I am concerned. This would exactly be the reason why WotC should be really taking an interest in their 3PP. Regardless of where you fall in the debate, you can't argue that there was a very loud and heated debate over 4E which resulted in the success of Pathfinder. That section of the gaming community followed Paizo's lead and they therefore have a sizable leadership position. At best, this means that Wizard's Industry Leader status is threatened. At worst, they have lost control. The biggest brand recognition in the industry has not won them the day any longer just by being itself. Now wizards needs to work if they want to maintain/regain control.

To fix this image, they need allies that will work for free. That is where 3PP come in. With a little assistance, a little recognition, almost no financial cost to them, Wizards can do alot to promote their standing. DMs looking for adventures that don't suck can find them among their 3PP. Groups looking for more setting details can find them among their 3PP. Imagine how much extra exposure it would bring to a 3PP if Mearls routinely mentioned that he was reading XXX company's product this week. It would cost Wizards nothing. Nothing. But it would generate alot of good will among 3PP what work very long nights and weekends to promote their products (and Wizards' products, by extension).

One complaint I have heard from ex-4E gamers is that they missing the level of setting detail they had back in the 3E days. Now they get 1 setting book and that is it for the whole setting. Wizards could license those settings off to their 3PP just like they did with Dragonlance back in the 3E days. Wizards produces the core setting and then licenses off the rest, allowing their 3PPs to do all the work (and pay all the costs) in creating new books. Easy money.

But with the movement of 3PP from 4E to Pathfinder leaves me with a "rats fleeing a sinking ship" feeling. That always starts at the edges, but that feeling will eventually be square on them unless they do something to change the momentum.

 

[pawsplay]

1. Not be hated by throngs of some of the dedicated gamers and industry people out there, who used to represent a community loyal to your brand
2. Growing and preserving the D&D brand as something with an emotional connection to your target market, beyond looking at your quarterly profits
3. Heading off costly and wasteful legal battles with third party publishers over what constitutes "fair use"
4. Trying to mend a rift between 4e adoptees and non-adoptees, that threatens for probably the first time to split the fanbase into rivalrous factions with a vested interest in the other group being perceived as less lucrative and invested
5. Ability to periodically reprint old product that may appeal to 3pp buyes, amounting to free money
6. Avoiding restraint-of-trade lawsuits
7. Avoid ending up in a Supreme Court decision where it is decided, once and for all, that RPG copyrights protect only the texts, not the rules, resulting in a sweeping, disfavorable finding that reduces your salable property to basically a logo and a handful of original creations like the bulette (woot!).
8. Having a new generation of crackerjack d20 writers to recruit froom, reducing dependence on an increasingly depleted supply of middle-aged writers from the "d20 glut" era
9. Let someone else produce the "all ninja pirates, all the time" campaign sourcebook for you.
10. Be an industry leader, not a shark
11. Invigorate and excite the fan base, rather than fatigue them with the neverending process of cash extraction until there is no fun left any more, just a sticky gray residue
12. not be dependent, during a recession, on in-house talent to produce enough support materials to feed the fan habit
13. Let other people take the bold, perhaps slightly stupid, risks. If they pan out, buy them out.
14. Actually have fanzines that matter.
15. Give people on your boards more to talk about than your own depleted release schedule

 

[Matt James]

Paws, don't read too much into my response to you. It is not meant to be personal, or in any way derogatory.

1. Not be hated by throngs of some of the dedicated gamers and industry people out there, who used to represent a community loyal to your brand

People come and go. Overall, the community outreach of WotC through their Organized Play/Encounters program has been very positive.

2. Growing and preserving the D&D brand as something with an emotional connection to your target market, beyond looking at your quarterly profits

This is what companies do. Corporations also have responsibilities to the people who invest in their organization. If one believes for a moment that this should not be their #1 priority, there are some misunderstandings about how the world works. Interesting that you bring up preserving the D&D brand, which also has some parallel ties to the GSL topic.

3. Heading off costly and wasteful legal battles with third party publishers over what constitutes "fair use"

Can you provide data on the legal costs of these battles, and provide the metrics for how it affected their botton line? Can you quantify what benefit these legal battles have had in relation to rampant violations of their IP? It's much more complicated than you are putting it--so much so that it requires an entire group of dedicated people, with degrees far superior (assuming) than ours.

4. Trying to mend a rift between 4e adoptees and non-adoptees, that threatens for probably the first time to split the fanbase into rivalrous factions with a vested interest in the other group being perceived as less lucrative and invested

Too late. Though, do you honestly believe this was an issue forced by either side? Or, was it the fanbase? I feel any rift, true or not, is the responsibility of the community to mend. Unless WotC/Paizo is putting out press-releases slamming the other brand; this is community issue.

5. Ability to periodically reprint old product that may appeal to 3pp buyes, amounting to free money

Nothing is free. If I create the Game-o-Matic, and it does well, but due to my licensing, 3pp were able to take over the brand, why would I sell parts for it when I have a whole new Game-o-Matic 4.0?

6. Avoiding restraint-of-trade lawsuits

See one of my prior answers.

7. Avoid ending up in a Supreme Court decision where it is decided, once and for all, that RPG copyrights protect only the texts, not the rules, resulting in a sweeping, disfavorable finding that reduces your salable property to basically a logo and a handful of original creations like the bulette (woot!).

Can you cite this USSC decision for me?

8. Having a new generation of crackerjack d20 writers to recruit froom, reducing dependence on an increasingly depleted supply of middle-aged writers from the "d20 glut" era

Wait, what?

9. Let someone else produce the "all ninja pirates, all the time" campaign sourcebook for you.

huh?

10. Be an industry leader, not a shark

You're invoking emotion. Provide facts for us. Where are they being a shark?

11. Invigorate and excite the fan base, rather than fatigue them with the neverending process of cash extraction until there is no fun left any more, just a sticky gray residue

The Organized Play/Encounters program is huge in my area. So much so that its difficult to get slots for any of the events.

12. not be dependent, during a recession, on in-house talent to produce enough support materials to feed the fan habit

This could possibly boil down to many factors, none of which we have any information on.

13. Let other people take the bold, perhaps slightly stupid, risks. If they pan out, buy them out.

Not sure what you're talking about--but it sounds like this relates to the 3pp items you spoke about above. Again, answer stands.

14. Actually have fanzines that matter.

Matter to whom? I find value in at least one article a month. While my preferences don't like every single article, I don't ever assume that someone else wouldn't find it valuable.

15. Give people on your boards more to talk about than your own depleted release schedule

Online communities love to b**** and moan. They are going to do it unless you rule your board with an iron fist. I remember this phenomenon happening even in 3e days--so... >_> --Users can hide behind their usernames and benefit from a certain degree of anonymity on the Internet. It's amazing how civil and receptive people can be once you speak with them in person. This was one of the reasons I decided to just use my real name as an alias for the forums--to allow people to seek me out during conventions in order to (civilly) go over ideas and thoughts. Everyone, even the trolls that can be quite mean, are often very cool people in person. Also, you get to see their non-verbal clues during the discussion--which helps a ton in understanding someone.

---

Note: I don't subscribe to threads. If you want to chat about it, hit me up with a PM, or point me back here.

 

[pawsplay]

Paws, don't read too much into my response to you. It is not meant to be personal, or in any way derogatory.

I sure hope it wasn't meant to be interesting.

 

[Umbran]

I sure hope it wasn't meant to be interesting.

And I sure hope you weren't intending to sound like a rude jerk, because then I'd have to boot you from the thread, maybe with an infraction point for your trouble.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Take a look at Apple and the whole App Store setup and allow Publishers to integrate new rules and mechanics into DDI via "apps". The apps would only be available through WotC's website and they take a cut of any apps that are sold. WotC makes money off of the apps as they are the single source where they can be purchased.

WotC would be helping 3rd Party Publishers get their products noticed, increasing subscribers to DDI, and adding an additional revenue stream in the percentage they are making from the apps. This would also help foster the growth of the D&D 4e Community and create goodwill with publishers and the fans. They could even go a step further and sell advertising in the app store for additional revenue and do spotlights and sales on products like Apple does with iTunes.