The Vampie Class preview

[Incenjucar]

Vampires are brand new, and seem to have even fewer options than hexblades, at least at heroic, so I do believe that my statement continues to be valid. Also keep in mind that having new options for level one do not compare to having new options every other level or so. Essentials-style classes simply have auto-upgrades to the powers you were forced to take to match your build.

 

[fanboy2000]

It also seems to me as rather innappropriate. Class to me is Paladin, Wizard, Bard...even Necromancer at a pinch. Vampire as a class does not fit.

Actually, I think it's perfectly appropriate to make Vampire a class. Anyone who can be a fighter can be a vampire, and they get powers that are useful in adventures. Depending on the vampire story, they don't all get the same powers, so it makes sense to handle power selection via player choice. Also, vampires are mythological monster that really do seem to go up in level as they get older and more experienced. Frankly, they seem taylor made to be a class.

Besides, if I want to play a game like that, I'd play World of Darkness where such things are the norm.

IME, D&D has always been filled with people who want to play exotic races and classes. It's often one of the draws of the game.

 

[Walking Dad]

This isn't Essentials, this is core D&D 4e.

When I wrote HoS, the only things that were changed because of the Essentials guidelines were:

- Feats no longer divided by tier, now grouped by theme and with flavor text. Also, broader in effect.
- Paragon Paths and powers in general now have flavor text before the stat block.
- Races now have expanded entries with more backstory, roleplaying tips, etc.

I think people calling HoS 'Essentials' don't mean 'in a limited series in softcover and box format', but just the changes in the new core books because of the Essentials Guidelines.

I personally like the changes / new presentation (also the changes that martial powers are based on base attacks), but I think it is also legitimate to dislike them and call them 'Essentials', as the changes are based on these Essentials guidelines.

That doesn't mean they should show up in all threads for new products to post: 'I dislike.'

But it would have been easier if WotC more openly announced the use of new guidlines based on essentials. So they wouldn't look at each product in hope not to see material based on them.

 

[gyor]

Yeah, but that's not really the same as a race. An aberrant race would probably be some sort of generic foulspawn with like a gibbering cackle or something.

An ooze race would probably either be a keeper (they turn into tar to escape) or something between a changeling and a water genasi, or maybe that one planar ooze race from Planescape. Fish race would be either kuo-toa or sahuagin (they even have race-like common abilities). Fungi would of course be myconids with some kind of roots of the colony ability and/or spores. Primal... who knows. There's barely any primal monsters in the game, so they'd probably have to make something from scratch or grab some random monster from past editions and call it primal.

Now I don't know that they will bother doing ANY of those, or whether anyone really cares, but those are the current racial design holes.

I won't mind Synads thier background of being from another world but driven away by mind bending horrors makes more sense if thier world of origin was sucked into the far realms, turning them into abberants with a triple mind.

 

[Incenjucar]

I won't mind Synads thier background of being from another world but driven away by mind bending horrors makes more sense if thier world of origin was sucked into the far realms, turning them into abberants with a triple mind.

I've never really cared much about the whole Far Realm thing, so I can't say that I know what people would get the most out of. I'm just looking at things from the same perspective that caused the five hundred different part-dragon races to become dragonborn.

 

[WalterKovacs]

But it would have been easier if WotC more openly announced the use of new guidlines based on essentials. So they wouldn't look at each product in hope not to see material based on them.

Ever since they started to have races with two options for one of their stats, it became the new norm. I don't recall an announcement about that new guideline (and it was introduced only halfway at first, with Changelings and technically Shifters in the same book as the warforged and kalashtar, having a 50/50 mix of old and new race design).

They introduced racial paragon paths in PHB2, and it became the new standard.

After PHB1, they phased out the "choice of two attack stats" for classes. That is the new standard for all future classes.

In general, every new book has introduced new design concepts, and outside of some [i.e. psionic design is limited to psionics, certain classes have their own special things that other classes don't, like monks with their full disciplines, or the runepriests modal powers, etc]. Essentials is following the same kind of concept. The players have treated it as a bigger shift, but from the designers perspective, I don't see how they would see a need to annouce a shift in design philosophy. No one expected PHBIII to ignore most of what was "learned" in PHBII, and be more like PHBI. Every release has built off what had come before ... if the books ignored the Essential stuff, THAT would be unexpected, and would probably warrant some kind of mention.

 

[Walking Dad]

... if the books ignored the Essential stuff, THAT would be unexpected, and would probably warrant some kind of mention.

It would be if it weren't strongly advised as a separate and limited line of products.
Every time someone pops up, saying 'Hos, I never liked essentials', there is a post soon 'this is a 4e core book'. This answer means Essentials wasn't core / is something separate from core. So why should one expect it to bring changes to the core line.

Again, I like the changes, but criticizes the marketing a bit.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You just get it wrong:

What is essentials? A limited line that everyone is expected to have.

Why? because newer products references to them. It is going back from the everything is core thingy.
So now you are not redirected to PHB 1, MM1 and DMG 1, but to essentials books, when new stuff appears.
But: PHB 1, 2 and 3 has stuff that is not found in the essentials line:

class/race specific feats, multiclass and rituals. But the vampire class was something that should make use of multiclass feats. So there is some supplement missing to go ADVANCED. Which the heros of the heroic tier seems to have been. Maybe DDI articles or even free articles will cover that hole for a while, until a new book comes out that covers the issues in a fashion that will allow WOTC to make some profit (which equals to: desirable by owners of PHB1, 2 and 3)

 

[Walking Dad]

I will try it again:

"HoS is too Essentials for my taste." is for most people only another way to say:
"I dislike the direction 4e took after releasing the Essentials line."

 

[twilsemail]

Then why do they bother looking at the new books? WotC isn't going to stop advancing the game at any point. They aren't going to backtrack 8 months and start again (I think they missed a save point).

Jumping into every thread and saying "Oh look another essentials book. Pass." Isn't adding to anything other than their trolling count.

WD, I know you're not doing this. I've seen Deimos in action and know that you don't have a hate on for the Essentials line or its legacy.