The Vampie Class preview

[WalterKovacs]

I stand corrected...

... but IF heroes of shadow allows hexblade and so been able to build without reference to hotfk you will not need the essentials products to use this book.

Technically speaking:

The "new" stuff in the book (races, paragon paths, feats, and the new classes, such as binder, assassin, blcckguard and vampire) does not require Essentials.

The new options require the older books. The new hexblade build will likely require the hexblade book, just as the the new schools would require the mage book ... in the same way that the wizard powers require a wizard from earlier books.

The "you can decide how much or little it impacts your game" is exactly the same as any previous book. Some DMs may not have allowed some stuff from martial power (for example, they may have banned the battlerager before it's errata). While the design philosophy of the book may continue on, there are still stuff that is usable for old characters.

True, there is no new implement mastery stuff in Heroes of Shadow, but would there have been? Without essentials, what element of implement mastery would have really lent itself to shadow magic? MAYBE some sort of superior implement (bone wand, skull orb) or magic implement (necronomicon type of tome), and they could tie into the summoning tome stuff, but there really isn't something like the magical schools that ties neatly into a shadow theme. Similarly, the reintroduced domains for warpriests is a thematic element that lends itself to shadow powers more so than the pretty much no build option (other than Strength or Wisdom, and a couple this or that class features) cleric's had.

The warlock is the only one that could have had a pre-Essential expansion, giving the old school warlock a gloom pact in addition to he binder and hexblade versions of that pact [although, the original warlock still leads on number of pacts with 5 vs. the 4 for the hexblade and 2 for the binder, not to mention having many more options and much more feat support].

 

[Walking Dad]

...
The "you can decide how much or little it impacts your game" is exactly the same as any previous book. Some DMs may not have allowed some stuff from martial power (for example, they may have banned the battlerager before it's errata). ...

You are quoting it wrong. It is now how it impacted on individual games, but it's impact to the guidelines in the design of later books.
Even after the options in the 'X Power' books, the next book still used the same guidelines as the previous books.

While the design philosophy of the book may continue on, there are still stuff that is usable for old characters.
...

Never doubted that. But more material is useful with Essentials than without. And some people feel like they were 'cheated' by that.

 

[Neonchameleon]

We have evidence that the Binder isn't a new build of Warlock? Pity.

And there are new options for wizards and clerics; the mage and warpriest powers can be taken by them (and I never found the implements particularly defining unlike the mage schools; the only reason I don't call the mage simply a better designed version of the wizard is the lack of Ritual Casting, and I hope someone publishes a Diviner that gives Ritual Casting as its first benefit). Also Warpriests are really helping wisdom clerics - wis clerics can now mix it up in melee.

 

[twilsemail]

Never doubted that. But more material is useful with Essentials than without. And some people feel like they were 'cheated' by that.

But that's true with all of the supplements. MP2 is more useful if you have MP1. Arcane power is more useful if you have the FRPG. These books added to the system. Just like every single other player supplement added to the system.

 

[Walking Dad]

We have evidence that the Binder isn't a new build of Warlock? Pity.

And there are new options for wizards and clerics; the mage and warpriest powers can be taken by them (and I never found the implements particularly defining unlike the mage schools; the only reason I don't call the mage simply a better designed version of the wizard is the lack of Ritual Casting, and I hope someone publishes a Diviner that gives Ritual Casting as its first benefit). Also Warpriests are really helping wisdom clerics - wis clerics can now mix it up in melee.

Binder is a warlock build. Blackguard is a paladin build. Executioner is an assassin build.
Vampire is new.

The other things were already discussed and I don't want to start new arguments.
But one thing: I think the Warpriest was the deathstrike for further Str cleric support.

But that's true with all of the supplements. MP2 is more useful if you have MP1. Arcane power is more useful if you have the FRPG. These books added to the system. Just like every single other player supplement added to the system.

I know this and you know it

Some Essential-dislikes just hoped essentials were more 'apart' from the rules.

 

[MrMyth]

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Commencing Countdown!)

I think they just want them to matter less and not becoming the new standard.

As I said, the problem was the representation of Essentials as a separate line you can 'safely ignore'.

Kaomera, the article also lists the complete Essentials line.

For new players, Essentials was a new entry point into the game.
For stores, it was an easy summary of what 'core' material would be best for them to keep in stock.
For existing players, some books were useless, and others provided either new content (Heroes of the etc, Monster Vault) or could be useful for enhancing the game (Rules Compendium, new tile sets, etc) just like most supplementary material previously released.

Honestly, WotC could have done a better job making that delineation clearer. On the other hand, you quoted the article where they did just that while simultaneously misreading what they were saying, so clearly they couldn't present it in a way that someone wouldn't misunderstand.

Yes, they said you could 'safely ignore it' if you already played the game. But the same is true of every book beyond the PHB - at the same time, though, if you ignore a book that introduces a new class, that doesn't mean you are cheated when they provide support for that class in other future material.

That's why I find it silly to claim being 'cheated' because they are supporting new and old material. Arcane Power supported the Wizard, the Warlock, the Sorcerer, the Bard, and the Swordmage. Does that mean you were 'cheated' because you only bought the PHB, and not the FR book or the PHB2?

You can't have it both ways. They are supporting the game in the same exact fashion they've done from the start. Either you hated it then and still hate it now, or it is an acceptable way for them to release material.

 

[Vael]

If you think about it, from the point of view of a player without any books, who wants to pick up Heroes of Shadow, the book is far more useful than an X Power book.

If you don't own any books, you've got the following classes: Blackguard, Executioner, Vampire, Binder
+ PHB: new Cleric, Warlock and Wizard powers. STR Paladins can probably grab some Blackguard powers.
+ Heroes of the Fallen Lands: New options for Warpriest and Mage
+ Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms: New options for the Hexblade. And your Cavalier might be able to grab some of the Blackguard's powers.

 

[Walking Dad]

Who is 'you' in your different paragraphs?

In the second, you clearly refer to me, but I think the others are impersonal, right?

Honestly, WotC could have done a better job making that delineation clearer.

QFT

And yes, every RPG book only matters for me as I want. It isn't even required to play any RPG or using any book.

But I stand to my words that the Essentials line had a greater impact on the 4e game line than many people thought or wished after reading and hearing the announcements.

'Essentials' is nothing separate, but the 'new' direction of D&D, just as the selectable ability mods in PH3 were a new direction in class design.

 

[kaomera]

Kaomera, the article also lists the complete Essentials line.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but you seem to be looking at this as essentials existing outside of core D&D? What I was trying to point out is that I never got that impression. The article you linked over and over again refers to the essentials products as "Dungeons and Dragons", and from my experience so far I've found that all 4e is core 4e, with a few minor gray areas in some of the setting-specific material (spellscars, dragonmarks, wild talents, and even those are widely argued for as core). And anything that's core is liable to get support in upcoming products.

I think at least part of what you're saying is that there's specific stuff you'd like to see supported, that doesn't seem like it's going to get that support. That's a bummer, for sure, and I don't really know what to say to that. On the one hand I'd hope that improved quality control would mean that when that support arrives it's more likely to be useful, but it also looks like WotC is in the same cash-flow bind as everyone else and is scaling back production. But it looks like (to me, at least) there's going to be a bunch of different stuff in Hos. Maybe none of it (or not enough to make it worth your while) will appeal to you, but hopefully there will be some kind of goodies in there for you...

 

[Walking Dad]

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but you seem to be looking at this as essentials existing outside of core D&D? What I was trying to point out is that I never got that impression. ...

Not me, but I think this article and others like it cause the misinformation.
I really like Essentials and the new direction, but understand people who don't.
Also HoS was announced as a softcover before and I'm not truly certain WotC had planned to use the Essential guidelines as direction for the whole 4e line before Essentials' success. But this is just a speculation.

Please see my quote blow for my take on Essentials.

...

But I stand to my words that the Essentials line had a greater impact on the 4e game line than many people thought or wished after reading and hearing the announcements.

'Essentials' is [now]nothing separate, but the 'new' direction of D&D, just as the selectable ability mods in PH3 were a new direction in class design.

[] = edited in.