Legends and Lore: What's With the Polls?

[Shroomy]

Another thing to note about this particular poll, there was at least one thread (probably more) on the WotC forums that was encouraging ballot stuffing.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I like the railroad design (mostly). Easier to teach people.

 

[webrunner]

And if you're got a group of 20 people, all ordering a meal each, 5 of whom want carrots in their meal, 10 of whom don't care, and 5 of whom hate the idea of carrots because they don't like the taste; should the restaurant refuse to serve carrots to the 5 who want carrost?

The 5 who hate carrots are essentially just being asses to the 5 who like them by complaining.

Oh, I know. but those 5 people can ruin the whole meal for everyone else, getting into arguments with the other 15.

Or they just go "WTF THEY SELL CARROTS HERE? I'm OUT"

 

[MWolfism]

Its more like they have this great restaurant.

They've got a menu, some stuff has carrots some doesn't, and that's fine. But they also have a chef's special. New one every week. But from now on, no matter what the chef's special is made with carrots.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

If 25% of people want something, and 75% of people don't... the 75% can happily ignore it, while the 25% will be happier with it.

Let's say only 25% of people want to be able to play druids. Does adding druids in harm the 75% who don't? Nope. But it really helps the 25% who do.

And now that they've added them, they need to leave them alone, and go back to making what the majority want. The simple classes shoudlnt get more optionns or builds, because that defeats their purpose.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I like the railroad design (mostly). Easier to teach people.

So release a build book, with pre-made characters of all power sources (noobs shouldnt have to learn on martials ya know). It would achieve the same thing with the added bonus of letting the player swap powers as the player gets more used to the rules.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

So release a build book, with pre-made characters of all power sources (noobs shouldnt have to learn on martials ya know). It would achieve the same thing with the added bonus of letting the player swap powers as the player gets more used to the rules.

This should have been in the PHB. They even tried to, with the "builds" and suggested feats and powers, but the problem was, almost without exception, those builds were all crap.

The nice thing about the Essentials classes, is that they are basically pre-optimised out of the box. If they could have done the same thing in their "sample" builds in the PHBs, then you could argue that the E-classes were unnecessary.

I would still disagree, however, as even though I have a firm grasp on most of the rules, and can follow a build guide as well as the next fellow, I still find uses for Essentials classes.

Even though they're simpler, I find that they're no less fun to play. YMMV, of course, and if it does, there are still, what, 30 other classes that you will like?

Edit: My mistake; 35 classes, plus 25 hybrids which can combine in an astounding number of ways.

 

[Incenjucar]

It depends on how much that 25% becomes the majority of what is released. Thus far the only new class released post essentials has been another railroaded option class (the Vampire). While there is plenty of stuff for older classes, the fact that new classes seem to be keeping to the essentials railroad design seems to be the new method. It becomes rather hard to ignore when that happens.

To be fair, HoS is clearly an Essentials book, and most of its writing was done before they finished getting a full response from the community. It was even originally in the Essentials paperback format. While we certainly have a horribly long wait to deal with, we won't know WotC's true response until they have a book that was wholly written after the community responded to Essentials.

 

[Riastlin]

To be fair, HoS is clearly an Essentials book, and most of its writing was done before they finished getting a full response from the community. It was even originally in the Essentials paperback format. While we certainly have a horribly long wait to deal with, we won't know WotC's true response until they have a book that was wholly written after the community responded to Essentials.

More to the point, one class since release of essentials is the epitome of "small sample size".

I'll be honest, by and large, the essentials style "simplified" format is not for me. I much prefer having more choices in building my characters. That being said, I see no problem with having some simplified classes for those who want them. I don't anything in this article suggested that they intend to stick with simplified classes no matter what, forever and always, amen, etc. If anything, they suggested the opposite by citing the gnome example. Their point being that even if only 10% of respondents stated they liked gnomes, excluding gnomes could end up negatively affecting as many as 50% of the D&D groups out there.

Certainly WotC has done plenty with which people can find legitimate fault. I'm not disputing that. But to think that because the one class that has been released since Essentials debuted was an essentials-style class, WotC is only going to release e-style classes here on out is a bit of a stretch. By that thinking, Essentials wouldn't exist. After all, over the course of the first three PHBs WotC released zero e-style classes. Perhaps they were just listening to some of the people who stated they wanted some simpler options. Any way you slice it, there's still plenty of "complex" classes to choose from. Frankly, I have more interesting options from "complex" style classes in 4ed than I'll ever get a chance to play in my lifetime.

Now, the one thing that I thought was interesting from the recent polls though was that the vast majority of the respondents had only played 3.x or 4ed. It somewhat makes sense since non-adopters of 3.x/4ed are unlikely to be surfing the WotC forums, but it does seem to suggest that a lot of the old grognards are not playing the last two editions. Perhaps essentials style is not only good for new players, but maybe for bringing back some of the old-timers as well.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Frankly, the mere introduction of Fortune Cards, alone, gives the lie to the assertion that Essentials is meant for a 'simpler' gaming experience. Fortune Cards add another phase to your turn, and a new dimension to optimizing your character. Not exactly slaying the complexity dragon, there.

The results of the poll were illuminating. About 70% rejected not the Essentials fighter, but a hypothetical fighter that /remained perfectly balanced/ and 'didn't feel overshadowed,' even while being stripped of options. So it was a hypothetical perfectly-executed, extreme form of the E-fighter that was rejected - soundly.

About 15% liked it, and the other 15% didn't really care. (actualy numbers were 71.1%, 14.5%, and 14.4%, for any purists out there - yes that's combining certain responses)


Then there was the left-field gnome argument. Really just a re-hash of the "ah just wanna hit da orc wit mah ax" annecdote. OK, there are some folks who claim they want to play optionless Fighters - quite specifically, never optionless sorcerers or clerics or whatever - so let's cater to them. Well, if that were the case, then there will be no need for future support of the E-martial classes, they're simple, you wouldn't want to make them more complex, and those folks should be happy with them, just as they are, evergreen and unexpanded, for the remaining life of the edition (even if that really is more than a year or two).

OTOH, if WotC continues to dive full-bore into creating simplistic classes, and supports the E-martial classes instead of the real martial classes from the PH1, well, that's not just catering to some folks that want a simple fighter. That'd be changing the nature of the fighter (and the game as a whole) over the objections of a sizeable majority of the fans.

Frankly, if you've clawed you way up to cheif developer for the the premier RPG of all time, you may very well feel you've earned the right to shape the game to your personal vision.