D&D 3.x 3.5 Bard's power?

Dandu · Mar 22, 2011

That's pretty much why I was banned from playing a bard in the previously mentioned GM's game again.

Imagine how bad it became when I had mass suggestion.

I don't get it. Do arcane casters in that game only cast Fireball?

Argyle King · Mar 22, 2011

Dandu said:
I don't get it. Do arcane casters in that game only cast Fireball?

hmm... that's tough to answer. I wouldnt say "only," but a lot of people I had gamed with during my 3.5 days focused on damage dealing.

Still, this is about the bard. Personally, one reason I found the bard powerful was that my 'spell' doesn't end until I stop playing. A second was that I could create power beyond a single encounter. Sure, winning one battle is fantastic, but planting a suggestion which wins a war (or convinced Nerull he should off someone) is even better.

Being a bard also meant I had an awesome Leadership score via which to attract cohorts and followers. ...because of high charisma and other factors.

I'm still haven't had a chance to dust off my 3.5 stuff and refresh my memory on what the second bard I played was. I want to say 'Seeker of The Song' or something like that, but I'm unsure. As I said, I haven't played 3rd Edition for quite a while.

Also, am I correct in remembering that Suggestion is a supernatural ability? There's a feat in the MM which makes a save against one of your abilities tougher. That might be how I ramped up how hard the saves were.

On a quick side note, I remember the GM once put us against some mindflayers. His thinking was to use some of my tactics against the party...

for tat as it were. However, it backfired because I just mentally dominated the mindflayer and then controlled the rest of the enemy through its mind control by suggesting to it to give them the orders I wanted it to give.

Greenfield · Mar 22, 2011

I took a look at the optimized Bard kinked to in the second post.

I'd have to do a detailed audit, but a few things looked funny right off.

Avarial don't have a 50' fly. They have 15' until they reach 10th level, when they get 20. And since he spell limits you to 5 HD or less...

Were the stats rolled, or from a point buy?

Just asking...

Dandu · Mar 22, 2011

Greenfield said:
Avarial don't have a 50' fly. They have 15' until they reach 10th level, when they get 20. And since he spell limits you to 5 HD or less...

[sblock]Abilities and
Racial Features
Avariels have all the elven racial traits listed in the Player’s
Handbook, except as follows:
• +4 Dexterity, –2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom.
Avariels have hollow bones and, as a result, are more fragile
than humans. At the same time, they are gifted with a keen
intuition and intellect, and an almost otherworldly grace.
• Keen Sight (Ex): Avariels gain a +4 racial bonus on all Spot
checks; this replaces the standard +2 racial bonus that most
elves gain.
• Avariels gain a +4 racial bonus on Jump checks. They are
strong for their weight.
• Proficient with either rapier or longsword; proficient with
lasso and bolas. This replaces the standard elven weapon proficiency
with longswords or rapiers and proficiency with shortbow,
longbow, composite longbow, and composite shortbows.
• Flight (Ex): Avariels have a flying speed of 50 feet with average
maneuverability, as long as they do not carry more than a
Medium load, are not wearing Heavy armor, and are not
fatigued or exhausted. Avariel wings have a span of 12 feet on
average; they cannot fly in an area that does not allow them
to fully extend their wings.
An avariel may make a dive attack. A dive attack works just
like a charge, but the avariel must descend a minimum of 30
feet and attack with a piercing weapon; if she hits, she deals
double damage. An avariel can use the run action while flying,
provided she flies in a straight line. For more information on
flight, see the Tactical Aerial Movement section in Chapter 3
of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, home region. Bonus
Languages: by region.
• Favored Class: Cleric.
• Level Adjustment: +3. Avariels are more powerful and gain
levels more slowly than most of the other common races of
Faerûn. See Table 1 in the Introduction.[/sblock]

Were the stats rolled, or from a point buy?

STR: 14 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 10 CHA: 16; standard 32 point buy.

Dandu · Mar 22, 2011

Greenfield said:
Avarial don't have a 50' fly. They have 15' until they reach 10th level, when they get 20. And since he spell limits you to 5 HD or less...

Perhaps you are thinking of the 3.0 version. The 3.5 version that I am using is from Races of Faerun.
[sblock]Abilities and
Racial Features
Avariels have all the elven racial traits listed in the Player’s
Handbook, except as follows:
• +4 Dexterity, –2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom.
Avariels have hollow bones and, as a result, are more fragile
than humans. At the same time, they are gifted with a keen
intuition and intellect, and an almost otherworldly grace.
• Keen Sight (Ex): Avariels gain a +4 racial bonus on all Spot
checks; this replaces the standard +2 racial bonus that most
elves gain.
• Avariels gain a +4 racial bonus on Jump checks. They are
strong for their weight.
• Proficient with either rapier or longsword; proficient with
lasso and bolas. This replaces the standard elven weapon proficiency
with longswords or rapiers and proficiency with shortbow,
longbow, composite longbow, and composite shortbows.
• Flight (Ex): Avariels have a flying speed of 50 feet with average
maneuverability, as long as they do not carry more than a
Medium load, are not wearing Heavy armor, and are not
fatigued or exhausted. Avariel wings have a span of 12 feet on
average; they cannot fly in an area that does not allow them
to fully extend their wings.
An avariel may make a dive attack. A dive attack works just
like a charge, but the avariel must descend a minimum of 30
feet and attack with a piercing weapon; if she hits, she deals
double damage. An avariel can use the run action while flying,
provided she flies in a straight line. For more information on
flight, see the Tactical Aerial Movement section in Chapter 3
of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, home region. Bonus
Languages: by region.
• Favored Class: Cleric.
• Level Adjustment: +3. Avariels are more powerful and gain
levels more slowly than most of the other common races of
Faerûn. See Table 1 in the Introduction.[/sblock]

Were the stats rolled, or from a point buy?

STR: 14 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 10 CHA: 16; standard 32 point buy.

Greenfield · Mar 22, 2011

Hmm. Odd. I see that I read the wrong thing, MPH overland instead of base speed, but per Avariel (3.5e Race) - D&D Wiki the base speed is 30, going to 40 at 10th level.

Methinks I'll have to look in a dead-tree edition to resolve this.

Dandu · Mar 22, 2011

Greenfield said:
Hmm. Odd. I see that I read the wrong thing, MPH overland instead of base speed, but per Avariel (3.5e Race) - D&D Wiki the base speed is 30, going to 40 at 10th level.

Methinks I'll have to look in a dead-tree edition to resolve this.

Alternatively, look at the bottom of that page you linked to.

"Back to Main Page → 3.5e Homebrew → Races"

kitcik · Mar 22, 2011

I have to confess - I do that all the time too. I read something on D&D Wiki just b/c it comes up high in a Google search and sounds like SRD, only to eventually realize it was "Homebrew." Too bad they didn't use a different background color for the homebrew pages.